need to know if anyone has put a set of vintuqe or wheel smith artillery rims on Buick 45 fin drums . Will the 15x5 of 15x6" rim clear the drum. I have some 15x6" rocket rims that are 2" short of going they need 2"spacer to work. Or will it take a 16" rim in steel I am running the stock 45 fin Buick drums with the stock Buick hubs not the ford hubs. @" spacer stick out way to far for my tast.
I used original 1937 Buick artillery 16 x 4.5" wheels, they fit prefect. I now have 15 x 5 smoothie steel wheels, they need a 1/2" spacer to fit. I also have two old M/T 15 x 5.5, they fit with the 1/2" spacer also. All these wheels are 5 on 5" bolt circle.
Given that the stock Buick wheels were 15 x 6 ish, the problem is NOT that you are using 15" wheels, but more likely the backspacing. As I recall, the stock fitment of steel Buick wheels placed the rim flange very close to the larger diameter of the fins. It may be that the thicker rim flanges of an alloy wheel upset that relationship. In which case, 16" should do the trick, providing....that you also get a backspacing that places the wheel center line further inboard. I recently went thru a similar exercise on an OT suspension that originally uses rather wide wheels, something I did not want. After careful measuring of all affected parts, I found a 16x6 wheel with 4" backspacing that put the center line within 5/8" of the original wheels. Close enough to original steering geometry, in my opinion, to not adversely affect the driving characteristics. Ray
Yes, you can get a 15" rim to fit the Buick hub and drum setup. However due to different wheel drop centers used to make wheels, not all will work as you want. You need to talk to the wheel maker and let them know what you want to do, and I'll say not all do know. A number of years ago I had Rally America make me some 5" wide 15" artillery wheels for that setup that worked well. They had a drum at their place and worked out the back space to make it work. You will see about 2" of drum and the contact patch scrub is not perfect, but it works. That was after being told by another company that their wheels would work only to find out they would not.
Find rims that fit with much more space on the inside/will cover the drums a lot. Sorry I can't say make an modal n year,but Buick is likely a good start that fit those drums. Great that you asked !!! . Your photo shows what not to do ,with front rims n tires. No matter what rim tire,it's got to be at lest so a line running through the kingpin hits the ground about the edage of tire patch on the ground,the more into that patch the better/at lest tell the center but not pass. Poor steering{darting from bumps,poor braking from too much out set of tire n rim,makes darting an side pull all from bad scrub. Those things add a lot to deathwabble beside the other prob.. Wrong rims with big out sets mess up a lot of cars,beside looking very bad,its not safe. Now that you know,hopefully you will not use that set up ! Yes,I see it done wrong a lot,why,they don't know better or think crappy engineering looks good to them some how . Looks like a super nice hot rod coming together !
I run 45 fin Buicks on my Deuce roadster with factory 15X5 steelies from an F-100 Truck. The backspace is whatever Ford offered on its trucks in the '50's. The fins protrude almost an inch, just what they are supposed to on hotrods. The drums fit flush against the steelies. Drums and hubs are redrilled for 5 on 5 1/2" pattern.
Actually, the drum should only protrude about 15/16" out of the rim. Most of the big part of the fins should show, no more. Otherwise, it looks like what you have now which looks like something that doesn't fit. Good luck and please don't take my comment as an insult. I just don't know the backspace of a factory 15" steelie from Ford, the original that early Ford caps fit on.
Since you are running Buick hubs; depending on the year the center register may be too large for some steel wheels and may have to be turned down a little.
I have to say that I love the 45 fins im running them myself with Wilson welding backing plates, in saying that though I have noticed lots of cars with that goofy look of the rim sitting waaaaaaayyyy out further than they should. best photo that iv got to show offset but this is mine running early ford steelies spindles redrilled to suit 5 on 5.5pcd
The OP's photo of his particular case clearly shows the steering geometry problem caused by the wheel fitment he is concerned about. As Dana Barlow says in his post above, the 'scrub radius' is way off and that is an important factor in steering geometry. Looking at the photos, and following a line drawn through the king pin to the ground, the line intersects the ground about where the inner wheel flange is located. Ideally, the tire/wheel centerline should at that intersection, or very close to it. Based on the OP saying his wheels are 6" wide the resulting difference appears to be about 3". The scrub radius can be thought of as a 'lever' whereby any force acting on the tire tends to rotate the the spindle and 'steer' the tire and that force is magnified by the length of the 'lever'. As Dana points out, that can (and will) have a number of adverse effects on the vehicle. An additional factor, other than a specific wheel offset, that can have an affect of this scrub radius dimension, is the non-Ford hub being used in some applications. It depends on whether the wheel flange of the replacement hub is in the same location as the original, or inboard/outboard of that point. Ultimately, it is the combination of the hub flange placement and wheel centerline location (backspacing) that determines the scrub radius. My signature line below summarizes all of the above. Ray
Thanks I do under stand scrub radius the rims on it now had to be spaced out 2" there on it just to protect the fins and to have a flat spot to set the car. I need to order 2 rims and thought some one might have ordered a set of artillery be for. I see that Riley was one and will try them. I just hate spending 150-200 a wheel for wall hangers
If you use a steel wheel on a Buick drum the deepest back space you can go without shaving the fins is 3 3/8". They really don't work well with a cast wheel, the cast wheels are thicker and that makes them have a smaller ID. We tried my 5 wide Ansens, center set ( about 2.5 backspace) and they would not work without shaving the fins.
To avoid the wall hangers you just need to tell them exactly what you are running and what you want to end up with. They will need to know that you are using the Buick hubs to get the correct register size. It's a popular setup, but many don't know about it. If you want a specific amount of drum exposure and/or contact patch fitment, tell them. You might be able to get it all in a 5" wide rim, or depending on the parts they use, maybe need to go to 6". And you most likely know, you usually have to trim the rivet heads flat on the three rivets that hold the drum and hub together. The original Buick rims had clearance for them, but most new centers will not.
Buick drums and Wilson backing plates with Ford hubs. I have '49 Chevy 15's, which meant using adapters. The wheels wouldn't have fit without them. I also have a set of '14 chrome slots that I can run with the adapters. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Brian, I have followed several of your projects, the green roadster, Diamond T, the canned ham total rebuild and more.....superb engineering and workmanship in all cases. .You are the LAST guy whose work I would dare to criticize.......and I kind of winced when I hit ‘post reply’, thinking it might come across that way. I do stand by sticking to certain engineering principles and physics stuff, at least to the degree I think I understand them, and steering geometry is one of them. However, I also have seen, and experienced, that some things that appear to be outside the theoretical boundaries, still work remarkably well. The pic you included here, the head on shot, shows the wheel offset to be less than the angled shots.....parallax view distortion, I think it’s called. Whatever the case, I take it you are satisfied with the results or you would have changed it by now. Wish now I had followed my instinct and not posted about the offset......only the compliment on the ‘34 overall! Regards, Ray
brain it looks like your running some houdaille shocks. did you have them rebuilt or buy new ones.? I asked Coker if these would fit and they said they should famous last words LOL. still may go 16" just to make sure . Brand: Specialty Wheel SKU: ARPR155LM314 Bolt Pattern: 5x5, 5x5 1/2 Finish: Primed Wheel Size: 15x5 Backspacing: 3.25 Wheel Series: Artillery
Love it ! The Buick rims are uniquely shaped on the back side. That shape is why they are the coolest ones to reverse and they also fit those drums.
The optimum scrub radius is about 2" either positive or negative. Below that and steering gets wander and lack of driver feel
I’m running repop 15” steel wheels with Buick 45 fin drums & the clearance is good. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The wheels should look like this , Deep back space- shallow front space and a unique taper in the rim. THEN THEY FIT!! without jacked up scrub radius or the dumbo look. And yeasssss it covers the beautiful drums.
No offense taken Ray. I have to say that the car drives MUCH better with the radials as opposed to the (ancient) bias ply tires. The offset of the rim laced Daytons won't let them fit the Buick drums, the 3/4" adaptors are a necessary evil, or I'd have simply re-drilled the knock off hubs. Which lets me also run the 15" '49 Chevy steel wheels, with the aforementioned ancient Sears Allstate tires. ;-) The cheap-o off-shore Vega repop steering box is the next thing going in the trash, I'm thinking of a Uni-Steer rack...
Re: Shocks. Yes, they're Houdaille's, actually the front shocks from my '48 Diamond T 201 one ton pickup. I knew they'd come in handy for something! They were fine, I think the Diamond T had such stiff springs they never moved, so they were in good shape. I just cleaned them and painted 'em.
scrub radius inside https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...member-my-rotor-thread-that-got-axed.1100074/
31vickywithahemi I have some that look like those off a 51 Buick convertible Or think I do I will have to dig in the shed and see if I still have that set.
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