Technical Front suspension rebuild...problem...please help

The first picks are the before picks...
This is a daily driver so some maintenance was due...also for appearance


After disassembly all parts not being replaced were media blasted and painted with POR-15...


Reassembly included spring rebuild as well as any part that wears out...
This is what it came out looking like...



Then the problem....
We put the wheels on it and let her down to adjust toe and that's where it went south...
It appears as tho the four bars are pushing everything forward when we let it down...
Anybody got any ideas why it went wrong and what to do about it...?
Of course any help will be greatly appreciated

 

Then the problem....
We put the wheels on it and let her down to adjust toe and that's where it went south...
It appears as tho the four bars are pushing everything forward when we let it down...
Anybody got any ideas why it went wrong and what to do about it...?
Of course any help will be greatly appreciated [/QUOTE]
These pix would not fit in the post so I am adding them here...
The one on the left is while in the air suspended...
The one on the right is on the ground....

 

Flip your axle around and put the leaf straps back on.

 

Flip it around as in I have the left and right on the wrong sides...?
I have never had straps on the spring since 2001 when the car was built...

 

Are your 4 bars all the same length?
You just need to adjust the four bars to center the axle under the cross member and adjust for toe in with the weight on the suspension.
Meant to say caster.

 

Upper bar would seem to be adjusted too long, or lower bar too short, or combination of both, pushing the axle forward. So shorten the upper bar, or lengthen the lower bar, or both.

 

Or swap the bars, top to bottom.

 

When you had the axle hanging low on the unloaded spring, the arc the bars make was too long, you just didn't see it. As you put the weight of the car on the axle and spring, you saw how much the bars were too far out. Re-adjust the bars shorter.

FYI, the suggestion of flipping the axle around is garbage. Old Ford axles, and all the new axles built in the Ford style, DO NOT have a front and back side.

Also, I noticed you sandblasted all the rust off so you could use some high-priced "Paint Over Rust" topcoat. How's that gonna work?

 

What's your caster? Did you disassemble the radius rods? If not, did you mix up the location they were in?
SPark

 

This comes up in every POR15 thread (many!) General experience by posters is that it does not want to stay on blasted clean metal (comes off in sheets etc.) Personally, I have never used it so cannot speak from my own experience.

Oh, and, bar length is determined at ride height.

 

POR should hold on the sand blasted surface. But ultra violets from the sun will affect it over time.

 

Yes...same bars that were already in it...
Do you mean adjust then while on the ground?
Can somebody please explain that procedure?
Toe is something I've done 100 times...i understand that procedure...
Thank you!

 

First the POR15 thing...i am nor going to address that...
This is not my first experience with the product and will not be my last...

That being said...l understand what you are saying about the arc etc...
I have never completely set up one of these type front ends from beginning to end...yet...

So...am I to disconnect the bars one at a time and adjust while on the ground under load...
How does that work... ?
I need that entire procedure explained to me and or I need to be directed to some online tutorials...
Thank you very much!

 

Those bars set your caster. Don't just start cranking on them.
SPark

 

As others have suggested you might have put the top bars on the bottom and vice versa. I’d start by measuring the bars from the center of one bolt to the other and jot down what you get. Now evaluate the numbers and decide if switching positions will fix the problem.
If that does help then there are still two things you will want to check. Start with the wheelbase, you want the measurement from the center of the spindle to the center of the rear axle the same on both sides, 106” for example. You might have to tweak the length of the 4 bars to correct that.
With the w/b dialed in now you want to check the caster, and as a rule of thumb most guys will use 5-7*. By setting the wheelbase first you have eliminated the problem of the 4 bar brackets not being welded to the frame exactly the same. If the caster is only 4* and you want to run 6* then you want to shorten the top bar to incline the top of the axle back more.
Take your time, get someone to help hold your tape measure and think through this, you can do it.

 

Fordors, has given you very good advice on where to start. The 4 bars serve two purposes they locate the front end and they set the "Caster" that is there purpose. Something obviously went wrong on your reassembly. By taking the measurements suggested you may find the problem right there, if that doesn't fix the problem start from scratch in setting the 4 bars and the caster adjustment.

 

your axle pins/shock mounts are upside down


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

its just an oops that you’ll have fixed in a jiffy

Look closely at pic #1
Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Take the 4 bars off, set the car on the ground. Measure the wheelbase side to side and adjust, maybe triangulate to be sure axle is square to the frame. Make sure the springpack is not twisted. Measure the batwing to mount on each side. We'll presume it was measured and welded in square and proper and the crossmember has caster built in. Adjust the 4 bars and assemble. If you find you need more caster you need to buy adjustable perches. It doesn't do any good the try and twist the spring. Oops, couldn't see in the pics until I blew them up, I see you have adjustable perches.

 

Looks like a different set of batwings.
I wonder do they have a different measurement between the perch holes and the 4 bar holes?
How about those rear bushed ends?
Were they always there or new? They appear longer than the regular kind.

 

I do all my adjusting with just the main leaf installed.
That way I can easily set the axle at ride height.
With the axle at ride height make all your adjustments, then drop the axle down & install the rest of the leaves, your done !

 

I can't speak for everyone but I have used moisture cure urethane (por) on sandblasted metal many times over many years and the stuff is damn near bulletproof, you can't hardly get it off with a chisel....

 

For sure it's different batwing brackets.
Do they compare the same dimensionally ?

 

Fordors gave a supurb set of instructions in post 15.
If it were me I would be digging through my old photos of the car to see if I had switched anything around from how it should be and was before.
Any parts that you switched that might have an influence on the adjustments such as bat wings need to be compared new to old to make sure there isn't a difference somewhere that is throwing things off.
If you tried to adjust the caster and or wheel base with the suspension hanging down that would be your main problem. The weight of the car has to be on the wheels before you can accurately adjust anything.
As they said, get the wheel base matching side to side and then worry about the caster. You are just turning the rod ends the same number of turns on each side then to keep things equal side to side. That could also mean equal turns in or out on the top and bottom bars on each side. Such as one turn in on the top and one turn out on the bottom to gain caster but in theory at least keep the wheel base exactly the same.

 

Caster at the crossmember is 7-8 degrees so I figured I would start there...yes, completely disassembled, see pics...all 4 bars are the same length...thanx!

 

Yes...this time I went with the stainless ones to prevent rust...
They were made for this application so I did not do a side by side comparison...

 

All four bars are the same length...so switching them is not an answer...
Wheelbase was checked several times during the rebuild however I have not checked since reassembly completion...
My crossmember is at 7-8 degrees so I was shooting for a neutral and unloaded setting there and could make adjustments from there...I DO understand caster and how to adjust it...

Here's what I don't understand...
Assuming all parts are correct and installed correctly...then what it sounds like is that I have to change the length adjustment of the 4 bars...
While hanging...they are under no load and bolts can be removed and one end of the bars can easily be lengthened or shortened...no prob at all...
If I am supposed to adjust while on the ground...they are under load and won't it be a bitch removing the bolts and removing the bars in order to make adjustments...? Aren't they going to be in a bind...?

 

WHAT...??? Please be more specific....have I really got something upside down...??? Anybody else see this...?
Thanx

 

By the way your not the first guy to have this issue.
The nut holding the shock mount to the perch pin should fit inside the shock mount recess. I can't tell if it's that way are not.
You can raise the car remove the batwing bolts install an alignment pin. Lower the car check the caster raise adjust lower check if it's right raise it install the bolts lower it recheck. If good install the nuts.

 

Is it ok to set it on the ground without the bars attached...? Don't they support the axle when loaded with the car's weight...?