Technical Need manual transmission safety switch ideas

All that you need is a switch that is open until the lever is pushed. That will complete the circuit allowing the starter to crank the engine. That is what the factory uses on manual transmission cars

 

If you wanted to have it both ways, you could wire in a double throw switch under the dash in a semi hidden location, one way the NSS switch on the clutch pedal would work, the other way it wouldn't, it would bypass it and allow it to start. That way, if you needed to use the starter with the clutch out to pull you out of a street or to start it with a linkage or other failure and allow you to drive it home you could. Could even make it a anti theft device with the addition of another switch in the wire running to the starter, on it would crank, off would not crank.

 

The argument of needing the starter to move a disabled vehicle is completely stupid at best.

Cranking a cold engine with the trust bearing fully loaded at least makes good sense to avoid that.

 

And that lever could be the clutch pedal!

 

The thread starter was looking for a way to make certain that the vehicle is in neutral before being allowed to start. It was pointed out that manufacturers have used the clutch switch. At least someone has to be closer to the driving position to start it. Some heavy truck transmissions have provisions for switches in the transmission to tell what gear they are in.

If I follow your logic, there shouldn't be an electric starter because it could fail when you stall the car. A crank won't fail and leave you stranded. We shouldn't depend on these things for safety. We get right back to the human in your example. You don't let the clutch up quickly. It is eased out so the operator can tell if it's in gear.

 

They might sound like a joke but I had a good friend get killed when some old timer hit the key of the car while he was standing in front of the car checking the engine in front of his auto parts house. The old fart shoved him into the block wall at the front of the store.
I've also seen a couple of cars start and take of in gear when someone's kid sitting in the car with the key in the switch decided to play driver and turn the key.

For a hot rod it might just keep these frigging idiots at car shows who think that every X number of minutes they have to reach in the car and hit the switch and than stand beside the engine and gun it by hand a few times because the car doesn't draw enough attention on it's own from having the car run over someone.

The safety switch on my dualie is bypassed along with a lot of other sketchy things Po's did to it and I've been guilty of hitting the switch with it in gear and having it jump. Luckily it didn't start.

 

I'd agree with Jim's suggestion of using a Chevy Truck brake light switch on the bottom side of the foot panel under the clutch arm in post #6. Not expensive, easy to find and damned simple to install and hook up.
Add in if you had an occasion where you needed to bypass it it would be real simple to bypass by pulling the connectors off the switch and sticking something in them to make connection. Beats the hell out of getting pinned against the wall because your five year old decides to climb in and play driver while you are in front of it in the garage.

 

Sometimes you do what you have to do. Was driving an OT early 70's European economy car that died in the middle of a busy intersection. Could have gotten out and pushed, but I hit the key and cranked up the block just a bit to get to a driveway. Sometimes you do what you have to do.

But I do agree about not liking to load the thrust bearing even though most of the major auto makers don't seem to think it's a problem.
-Dave

 

What do you need one for? Putting someone who can't drive in it?

Easiest way is to put a switch on the clutch peddle. Number one rule of driving ( from '50s and '60s anyway) is you plant your ass in the seat, check to see if it is in neutral and depress the clutch before you ever hit the switch.

 

That's the whole idea of a neutral or clutch switch. to keep the rig from starting when your ass isn't planted firmly in the seat.
I believe the black car in post 67 got wrecked when the owner reached in to fire it up at an event to let someone hear the engine if memory serves right.

 

Correct. It was at the RoundUp. He would start it all the time. Finally it was in gear and he was outside. It shoved my car back 20 feet and it was in gear.

 

Sure,I get it. We push cars on a daily basis.

Not really a reason though is it. Unless you're that guy who brings his own parachute on a commercial air liner, packs his own dingy on a cruise, bring his own shopping cart to the grocery store,, for that guy I could see he'd like to have his own emergency tow truck included with his car. I'm sure that push mule wouldn fit in the trunk because the X-Ray machine was so big.

 

Politics aside.
That safety switch would be called a "frontal lobotomy".
Please, no cards or letters.

 

Hopefully I will not be in the way and any idiot that does not plant his/her fat ass in the seat before ever hitting the start button deserves to loose a car.

It is driver's ed ( or farmer) 101 there is a certain starting sequence part of that is sitting in the seat and verifying that the vehicle is not in gear.

Note: sorry about your friend. That's a tough row to hoe for the both of you.

 

In the last year I sold a HD...no clutch switch.
I sold my 62 Nova...no clutch switch.
I sold a 77 TA with the clutch switch overridden.
I built the 34, no clutch safety switch.
I also own a Glock model 16. No safety.

No one hurt or harmed in connection with any of the above.

You know what the real problem is? Lawn Darts. More specifically the lack thereof.

The US banned lawn darts in 1987 due to safety reasons. They served a purpose in society, thinning the herd of stupid people. Think about it, the world is much worse off since the ban. We wouldn't need this discussion in an alternate time line where Lawn Darts were still for sale at Wal-Mart and Target, everyone would know that you depress the clutch prior to hitting the ignition and back it off slowly.

 

This shows how much the 'nanny state' mentality has permeated society. I always thought that car people/gear heads prided themselves on being if not cautious while operating a vehicle, at least being observant. Alas, it appears that is dying...

When I see those ads on TV for new cars touting some safety feature (usually by showing some moron not paying attention), what I visualize is some airhead at home going 'How cool is that! I can not pay attention and the car will help me!' Somehow I suspect there won't be a big drop in accidents due to them...

 

Ever since the OP's first post I've wanted to chime in with this thought but didn't because I didn't have a full solution to incorporate these pieces, still don't but here goes.
They are NOS GM backup light switch and related hardware, long discontinued but they are being reproduced.
The bracket bolts at the Muncie side cover lower rear two bolts and the rod connects the switch to the reverse lever and as you know reverse is accessed from neutral past the 1-2 gate.
An additional switch may also be neccesary. I just don't know.
As I said; I have yet to come up with the details for a NSS adaptation but with some thought and creativity and input from other HAMB'rs this may be a start.


One example from Google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mun...AUIEigC&biw=1280&bih=752#imgrc=8vVUc8bKJMdFiM:

 

No that's not my logic at all. Maybe there is a geographic / cultural issue as sometimes I'm misunderstood.

Maybe I do not have enough education to convey my thoughts. Maybe I chose a poor example for a point. Maybe I'm too wordy like right now. Maybe you misunderstood what I wrote.
My logic is......Do no harm! Make sure it's right! Weigh the risks and consider the unforeseen!

The clutch switch is simple and realiable for what it does.
This is by far the best bet.

To try and put a Nuetral Safety switch on a manual is problematic. Nuetral is sloppy on the shifter. I suggested looking at the transmission shift arms but still, How do mount such a switch and where. Most importantly there could be problems with such a device as mentioned in my earlier reply.

I see a clutch switch as the only reasonable solution.

How would you wire up a neutral safety switch on 4 speed?

 

i gave two ways in post 46

 

Lots of discussion around safety...that's a good thing.

I will be going with some sort of clutch activated safety switch. I have had some good suggestions on this thread, so should be fairly straightforward.

 

Damn. Totally avoidable. That sucks.

 

I had a friend when I was in Mexico who carried a multitude of safety equipment with him, each piece came from a previous accident or adventure.

His first bad thing came when he was in a Bronco that got swept away in a flash flood. He could not swim and a fellow passenger grabbed him and pulled him into a tree with him,. After that he always carried a life jacket.

Next he had a car catch fire and burn to the ground. So after that he carried a pretty substantial fire extinguisher. He always talked about s suppression system but he extinguisher was enough to make him comfortable.

His last real adventure was taking his truck over a cliff into a field. He lay in the truck with a compound fracture for 14 hours (give or take) until someone came and found him. That actually required two new pieces of equipment, a radio and a parachute.

I gave him my lucky rabbits foot for good measure.

I said all that to say this, some of his equipment was obviously pretty useless. But it made him comfortable to have it. I feel the same way about safety equipment. I am not against it at all, if it makes anyone who is driving more comfortable to have it then it is a good thing. Go for it by all means. It does not mean you are a sissy or anything at all it just means that you are different than me and that is not at all a bad thing.

 

what that guy needs Beaner is a limo and driver.

 

I like @DDDenny 's idea above, very much the same set up on my 71 LT-1 vette. Worked great on a Muncie. T-5 is another issue with the rail shifter. I am actually working on a combination pedal stop (my hydraulic TOB wants only a 6" travel on the 6:1 pedal) and clutch safety switch to be mounted under the car. Not so much for the safety aspect but I need the stop so why the hell not? (that rhymed). My M/C's are under the floor.

The TKO 500 in my OT Camaro has a neutral safety and it is a pain when you are rolling and the car dies as you must return the car to neutral before you can restart it. I am considering wiring around it and using the clutch pressure switch the '69 has from the factory. It looks like this (mine is cleaner, this I stole from the web);
A switch mounted under dash / and a rod that connects it to the pedal. Great for hanging pedals.

 

here was my thought, remember i am not an engineer. i have no idea watt is what, i am more of an imagineer so the experts can tweak this.

 

Too complicated. Instead, find convenient firewall hole sorta in line with clutch swingarm. Fill hole with pushbutton switch. Then rubberband a pushbutton pusher on swingarm. Use heavy-duty asparagus-spear rubberbands from supermarket produce section. Jack E/NJ

 

When I was selling my '42 Ford PU, guy was over to look at it. I left it in gear so it wouldn't roll in to the car port door.
My house phone rang and as I was heading to answer it, he asked if he could start it, I said sure.

I hear the truck fire up, a big crash as it went into the door.

Things you have to watch out for, even things you don't think about.

 

You break it, you bought it!

 

He didn't buy the truck, but did buy me a new door....that I put in the back of my shop. What he didn't know I used a 14 foot door for 8 feet. About 30 minutes later I had a working door again, and the money in my pocket for a new one