Hot Rods m23 muncie shifting problem

I have a brand new muncie m23 with a hurst competition shifter. I am having a problem shifting from 2nd to 3rd . Sometimes the 1st and 2nd lever gets pulled back into 1st during the 2nd to 3rd shift and tranny linkage is stuck with 1st gear lever in 1st. I have to pull over and crawl down car and pull 1st gear lever forward into neutral. And start over . also it seems like its hard to shift into any gear. any suggestions ?

 

Had the same issue with a 66 gto hurst shifter. I sent it out to a guy in Michigan and had the shifter rebuilt. It was absolutely perfect after that. Probably better than it ever was new.

 

Their a pain to take apart and put back together. But by just barely opening the bungler hole on the 3 4 lever makes a big difference so that an open hand forward motion is a that's needed for a 2 to 3 shift. If I remember correctly it's the one with the perfect round hole.

 

you guys think it is the shifter? its brand new though should not have any wear , I kind of remember reading about the plastic bushings are wroth a crap. may be I should make some brass ones?

 

There's only one thing that can grab the 1-2 lever and the 3-4 lever at the same time. That's those scary parts inside of the shifter. Not that you don't have another problem as well.

My problem got worse when I was getting on it of course,,, slammed into 3rd at the shifter but the Trans went back into 1st. The internal shifter mechanism never fully let go of the 1-2 lever and didn't grab securely onto the 3-4 lever. Ugly enough for sure but If it had grabbed the 3-4 lever too that could have broken something really expensive.

 

whats with your linkage? These shots are so much more straighter.

 

Its hard to tell from your pictures, but did you put an allen key in the slot, thru the holes in the shift arms, and then set the shift rods.

 

Most guys that install their Shifter's forget to do that !
you have to do the Shifter alignment to make it Right
Follow the Instruction's from Hurst & it should be alright.

Just my 3.5 cents

Live Learn & Die a Fool

 

check out gearbox videos on you tube before you destroy that new transmission. Paul will set you straight.

 

The shifter should come with a 1/4" rod. Back off the stop lock nuts and back the stop bolts out a few threads. Drop the levers off the transmission. Put the rod in the slots so all the shifter plates line up. Then put the levers back on the transmission, adjust as needed. Then adjust the stops (3rd and 4th gear) per the Hurst instructions. I have always thrown out the plastic bushings, brass is not hard enough. Spring for the Hurst Pit Pack.
http://www.hurst-shifters.com/products/3327302-shifter-accessory-pit-pack-steel-bushings/

I just went through this with my trusty '64 vintage M20 after having it blow out of 3rd gear on me a few weeks back. Now it is fixed, installed new shifter bushings... a couple of my steel ones were broken. Set up the shifter from A to Z.

 

I generally use a 1/4" drill bit [or a 1/4" allen wrench] to stick through the alignment hole in the shifter. Also, I never use the plastic bushings as they wallow out quickly, losing the adjustment you just did.

 

Yep
Every NEW Hurst Comp plus shifter that I've bought feels "soggy" right out of the box.
Steel bushings make a big difference over the plastic ones.
New spring clips help also when refreshing a shifter.

 

What is a Muncie M23? I’ve heard of the M20, M21, and of course the M22 “Rockcrusher”, but an M23?


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

you guys think it is the shifter? its brand new though should not have any wear , I kind of remember reading about the plastic bushings are wroth a crap. may be I should make some brass ones?

yes they look way simple compared to mine.

 

https://www.midwestmuncie.com/product/super-duty-m23/

 

I've been breaking the steel ones, granted they had around 7000 miles on them. The new clips fit a little differently than the old ones. I've used the nylon bushings for reverse before. I have a stash of thin titanium washers that I use under the clips, it helps to take some play out.

 

still fighting this problem , tried recalibrating shifter arms , intermittent problem of trans going into 1st and locking in there when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. going to email tranny builder to see what he suggests. oh yeah ordered some steel bushings

 

It is hanging up in 2nd so the detents [inside the side cover] are preventing you from selecting 2 gears together.
Check your clutch first......
Then if the problem persists , It is a slider problem
90% of the time the gearbox builder uses "Hook" sliders [or torque lock sliders] on 2nd and 3rd gear, which makes it worse on a new gearbox.

Hook sliders are a patch up on worn out old Muncies to stop them jumping out of gear. For this ,they work great. But on a new gearbox they cause them to hang up while shifting out of gear

I had this problem on a very expensive Road-Race M22 gearbox. It would shift beautifully while stationary [and on the bench] but it the car under load it was terrible.

 

I am 90% sure I got it figured out after watching a youtube on muncie tranny repair . the tranny guy called the part a "eye brow" bar. It keeps the tranny from going into two gears at the same time. I think mine was putting pressure on both forks because linkage wasn't adjusted right . instead of using the hurst linkage alignment tool . I adjusted it to where I think they feel best. So far its working but I still have 200 more miles to break in rear end and tranny before I give her hell.

 

those look nice where did you get them?

 

yes this guy is great

 

So- Can you bang from 2 to 3 without problems now?

 

I've wondered that also but no one has mentioned it?

Pat

 

The M23 is a Hybrid Muncie sold by Autogear. A combination of Low helix/high nickel with wide ratios
The gearsets are made by Antonio Masiero gears in Italy [they are the OEM manufacturers of gears for Euro trucks/cars etc]

 

Never knew that! But with a name like Antonio Masiero and made in Italy it's got to be good.

Pasquale Liguine

 

Antonio Masiero make gears for DAF and Volvo trucks and also for other transmission manufacturers.
Autogear own the gearsets ! Masiero only make the individual components to AG's specs, and AG put the components together as a set. [each component has a Masiero part #]

They are tough. I had a M22X gearset [ultra close road racing] behind a 650 Ft/lb BBC .
Because I raced historics, I had to use period correct casings.
My casing had a teardrop shaped "girdle" installed in the front of the casing. [photo attached] [please excuse the white legs of my garage helper]

 

So- Not speaking for Eric at all here- I rode in the car, watched the shifts, experienced the issues......... So- The 1-2 is straight forward= from up to down. No bigee.(duh). It's the 2-3 that will jam 1'st .... I noticed that with the shifter= from the 2 to 3 shift= the shifter itself wants to/ does find a "spot", say between gears, that it "moves" from straight up, then "finds' a gate in itself, and kicks to the right a touch. If it is shifted by this means, all is golden.....
I'm not a manual guy. I'm trying to help a buddy.
In my limited smarts, and I do not know what the shifter is supposed to do/not do, If not slamming gears, and finding the "spot" where the shifter "kicks" a lil to the right on the 2-3, it's all good. the trans is good/clutch is good. It's almost like instead of rowing up and down, and everything falling into place, there's a lag/side step/what ever you want to call it between 2-3. We did it not under full pedal, and it was fine..... but- under stress= well, the issue...... I'm trying to help with another set of eye's here..... Thoughts? I am trying to learn here also about this problem.
Thanks-Kid

 

That shifter is supposed to move in a CLEAN H pattern. Smooth verticals and horizontal
With Only one place were it moves to the right on the up shift , cleanly and smoothly thru the neutral gate.


While you're moving the nob thru the pattern, there's a lot of action in the shifter (below the knob black in and the shifter in red)
The busiest most critical part is going from 2-3, lots can go wrong if something isn't right with the neutral adjustment. That slight kick to the right is in the wrong spot I'm thinking and it needs to be brought back in line with the neutral gate. Like I said before in an earlier post, the shifter handle pin is hanging onto the 1-2 selector while trying to move the 3-4 selector. The slight right kick is when it finally releases the 1-2 and fully engages into the 3-4 selector. The shifter mechanism is the only thing that is capable of moving the 1-2 shift lever and the 3-4 shift lever at the same time. The obscure thing would be the side cover mechanism being assembled by a drunk monkey. But you'd have no extra kick to the right.


Start in neutral - shifter nob moves left to right , clean.
Move the nob to first.
The shifter handle pin moves out of the neutral gate into 1-2 selector, and that linkage rod pulls the Trans 1-2 shift lever out of neutral and into first gear.
Now move the nob to second gear.
The shifter handle moves the 1-2 selector by pushing the 1-2 shift lever back to neutral and pushes it further into second gear.
Now move the nob to third gear thru the neutral gate
The shifter handle moves the 1-2 selector pulling the 1-2 shift lever out of second gear and back into to neutral position . The shifter handle pin releases the 1-2 selector once it's in neutral and as the nob moves cleanly thru the H pattern the shifter handle pin now grabs the 3-4 selector and pulls the Trans 3-4 shift lever into 3rd gear.
The 3-4 shift will be typical.

 

so far i have, but not full power yet

 

I have the Italian counter gear in my M20 and an Auto Gear side cover. Auto Gear should be able to help you, talk to them. I've had conversations with Nathan from AG on another forum and he was helpful.

I still maintain that you should be using a 1/4" rod to set the shifter adjustment. I did this on the bench when I put my M20 back in last month. I use drill rod that I have around the shop. In your case it may be a matter of 1 turn at the 3-4 shift lug. (maybe the 1-2 lug???) Try it 1 turn longer/shorter and see if it helps. The arm should still go onto the lug without force. Also do the 3rd and 4th gear stop adjustments. Which is explained in the Hurst FAQ link below.
http://www.hurst-shifters.com/faq/