Hot Rods Hurst shifter funk

Prefix- it's a 1954 Chevy 3100, has a 327 with a Muncie M21.

I didn't build it, my dad did in 1971 two years before I was born. He is not alive to give input

For years, from what he told me, has gotten stuck in second gear with no rhyme or reason, so after talking to Hurst I bought a linkage kit. It was sticking in gear for me too, but only in second gear.

Numbers on tranny say is 64-65 Pontiac. I set everything to neutral via an alignment pin, and everything felt good until I tried to drive it of course. I installed the metal bushings for the shifter arms at the same time. I made sure the alignment was perfect.

It appears to have an old Hurst shifter cluster but of what vintage I do not know. It is definitely prior to when they did shifter stops on the cluster.

I do suspect that I need to enlarge the hole in the floorboard for full shifter throw, but it's odd that it did fine before and now it won't seem to engage any gear. When running, the "zzzzzzzzz" will happen when trying to shift into gears, which makes me think that there's just not enough throw to get it into gear. That said, the plate that bolts to the side of the housing that is included with the Hurst kit doesn't look like it will work. So perhaps the hole in the floorboard combined with the slop in the old shifter is causing the issue? Just weird that it was doing much better with all the old parts. It's possible that he did a "home-brew" adjustment to get everything working reasonably, and didn't use the alignment pin.

The other thing is the 1st/2nd gear rod is exceedingly short (see the pics). it engages 1/2 of the threads onto the threaded post that then slides into the shifter with the pin.

Any input as to what is going on? Perhaps I thought wrong in thinking that the Muncies should have had a universal bolt pattern to bolt the shift cluster to the transmission. I almost always think wrong according to the wife.

 

Looks like a Hurst shifter all right but looks like some Spark-O-Matic shifter rods. Before we all say maybe you should look at rebuilding the trannie....try looking up some original linkage set up...maybe some one can post a pic....plenty of room under that truck for a straighter set up....good luck

 

Most likely it's a
produced for GM" shifter by Hurst. Looks rusty enough to be completely torn down and rebuilt; does Hurst still have the Shifter Doctor? You're at the limit for a couple of the rods; are they the correct ones; it might make for a little extra movement at the adjuster trunnions. Hurst shifters are pretty much mix and match capable, meaning you can use virtually any tower assemble, find the correct rods and levers, and put together a working shifter. One of mine started it's life out as a MOPAR Pistol Grip Hurst; now it has a bolt on stick, and is mounted to a Borg Warner Super T-10/2.64 first gear transmission. Your transmission probably does need to be looked into also. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

If the shifter has a flat stick it is from a ‘65 Pontiac, the ‘64 GTO’s has a round stick, but then again it could be from a ‘65 Catalina, those had a longer tail shaft housing. Without knowing the difference could the extra length take a different kit? Muncies I have seen only had five mounting holes, but from online research I see there were some with six threaded holes. Get the casting number from the t/s and you can ID it from info online.
Like Butch said it was made without the stops for GM, I suppose to save some money. The Muncie in my ‘73 Cutlass had no stops either. Many of the aftermarket instillation kits used a die cast aluminum mounting plate but the GM factory Hurst shifters used the steel plate as on your trans.
Sounds as though you put the rod kit on under the car. If you used a wrench on the fasteners on the shift levers can you put it in first through fourth and also reverse that way?

 

Yep, could certainly use a rebuild, for sure. The angle of the trans is dictated by the exhaust manifold clearance around the steering box (surprise, surprise), if that's what you mean by a straighter setup. The shifter rods are a brand new Hurst installation kit, thanks for chiming in

 

I'm certainly considering just getting a new unit, with the stop bolts. The trans likely does need some work, but because I was going to have it all apart, I took the side plate off and replaced the "scissors" that keep the shift forks going in the right direction.

The hangup in 2nd gear was the reason I got into this, and everyone I spoke to told me to eliminate the easy stuff first, like linkage, etc, so I started there. And, the original shifter rods did have a fair amount of play in them- it was before they used bushings, as you know- the rods just slid into the holes on the shift brackets- no metal or plastic bushings. Thanks for your response!

 

That's a great thought. The casting number is 3851325. But If I recall correctly, it didn't say much other than 64-65 Pontiac. I could take a google search and try to eyeball whether my tail housing is longer than other pictures?

The shifter stock is flat, but looks like my dad but looks like my dad cut off part of the stick, and drilled new holes to angle the hurst shifter back toward the dashboard, to make room for clearance of the bench seat.

Due to the transmission mount, its hard to get a wrench up there but I'll try to clunk it into gear from below today. Thanks for taking the time to post !

 

Well, the plot thickens. I hadn't taken a close look at the old shifter brackets that came off the side plate, and compared them to the new ones that came with the Hurst installation kit.

Shifter rods were installed in the lower hole, which would significantly alter the amount of throw that the shifter needs to fulling engage the gears. Which begs the question, did the original GM/Hurst shifters then have a different throw amount at the shift cluster itself? I do not know.

Might go ahead and order that new shifter from Summit today That, or redrill holes in the same location as the old brackets...hmm.

 

Check the tailshaft housing for a number, not the main trans case, and if that seven digit number starts with a 9 it is the Pontiac Catalina long t/s casting. 9779246 is the only odd long housing. I would not order anything until you verify that number. All the other t/s housings start with a 3, except for the long one so make sure of what you need.

 

That, my friend, is golden info. I will go and take a look this morning

 

I went to the attic over the garage and dragged out the Hurst from my ‘73 Cutlass, no stops and no bushings on the trans levers. It looks like there are bushings at the shifter levers, but again, I think this was a cost savings for GM, the Competition Plus shifters always had the stops and the bushings at both ends of the rods.

 

I'm just a hack and not particularly experienced but this is what I'd try in your shoes...........
Temporarily detach the rods at one end (may be easiest at the trans end). Start with just the rod for 2nd gear. By hand move the lever arm for 2nd, at the trans, into position. With the floor shifter also in the 2nd position, the rod end should align and fall right into the hole. Spin the rod threads in or out to adjust the length. Since you're now having problems with all the gears, do the same with the rest of the rods and shifter positions.

At a minimum, I would squirt some heavy weight gear oil all around in the Hurst.

To work comfortably under the truck, you should have it safely up on jack stands anyway, and I believe with older trucks, like yours, you can start the engines in gear with the clutch in. Myself, I would be so brave as to check each gear adjustment that way. If I was feeling less brave, I would pull the plug wires and spin the driveline with the starter motor. If I'm posting bad advice, somebody please correct me.

 

You got it, exactly what I have. I was able to install the metal "pit pack" bushings on the shifter levers. And I did check the number on the tail housing, 3846429, correct to 1963-65 per info on the net.

Your trans levers are definitely different than mine, though, as I have two adjustment holes for the rods to slide into instead of one. Perhaps to adjust the shifter throw length? Or maybe some of the earlier shifters had a different amount of throw inherently.

 

You got it, I followed the adjustment procedure to a T. The rods would slide into the levers perfectly with the adjustment pin in the shifter. Took me an afternoon to get it just right. And yep you can fire it up with the truck in gear, no problem. I plan through running it through the gears for sure. Thanks for posting!

 

This makes me think. Is it possible 1-2 lever goes to for over center when in 2? Is 1-2 lever on 3-4 of box and 3-4 lever on 1-2 of box? You did say 1-2 rod is to short for some reason.

 

Correct, the second hole in the lever is used to shorten the stick throw. But don’t let that influence you in any way, mine might only have the one hole because they figured nobody cared about the throw.
The levers from my ‘73 look more like Competition Plus style, but without the bushings and for want of a better term yours look more “generic”, if that means anything.
Johnny Gee might be on to something. Did you install the new kit closely following the instructions or did you put the levers on to match the way your dad had them?

 

All great questions. Time for a double check, for sure.

I just got off the phone with Hurst themselves. They said that the newer installation kits aren't made to work with the old OEM style original Hurst shifters, and that is likely part of the issue.

I'll definitely check the shifter levers, tho.

 

Those are the arms the "factory" used on the Hurst Shifter. My 66 442 arms were just like that. They did shorten the trow a bit, but not much. Either hole had no effect on the shifter body throw, My 68 442 arms only had one hole for the Shifter arms. If you look closely at the picture of the cutlass shifter you will see the 'slip in' feature for the shifter handle. It slid in held by a spring clip. To remove you slid a feeler gauge down the side of the shifter handle and pulled the handle straight up. It was an assembly aid in the factory. They could body drop the body to frame and then at a later station install the lever and boot. That way it did not interfere with the body drop/installation process. Factory installed Hurst shifters did not use bushings steel or plastic during the 60's

 

You say you get gear grind when trying to shift into gear while running..... what about when the engine is off? Does it go into gear? If it does..... adjust your clutch !!!
Do you have the shift boot off to see if it is hitting the floor?

 

These little "levers" can sometimes be inadvertently flipped, or switched around with others, and mess up the shifter throw somewhat. Some of those have the slot straight up and down so they are hard to mess up but the angled slots are fussy about that. This can also play into how long the rods are.

If you have checked the shifter action all out then perhaps the problem is in the trans.(?) The syncros, forks or whatever.

 

The levers are all in the right position, just looked at the part numbers on the sheet and everything is cop-aesthetic. Going to call Summit and make sure they sent me the right installation kit.

 

It feels like it shifts into gear, but the throw of the shifter isn't getting it all the way in. It hits the metal of the floorboard before it goes all the way in. It ran and drove before this all happened, albeit with the occasional hang up in second gear. That's where the questions about the shorter original shift levers come in.

 

Summit now says they are willing to warranty the installation kit and give my money back, good on them, but it doesn't fix anything.

They seem reluctant to sell me a new competition plus shifter, since they aren't clear that that is the issue, and if I install it, it's mine...they won't take it back. I get it, not their fault.

I think at this point I'm going to drill out the old original shorter lever holes for the metal bushings so they'll fit the new rods and give that a try, since it was at least functional before.

 

Well, open up the hole in the floor if it’s not going into gear. Something has cause the change in space available. Eliminate that as a possible cause before buying more parts.

 

Moving to the original holes will shorten the throw. You may still end up trimming the hole in the floor a bit too.

 

You may not have an easy go at drilling them with a standard hss drill bit, may require a cobalt or carbide drill bit.
Those that don't use a bushing are hardened to be used with a hardened end on the rod.
Not the best design but lasted well past new car warranties so the oem's kept doing it.
It's hard to tell in your photo but it kind of appears that the holes may have been opened up with a rotary burr or something, (looks) slightly less than a round hole.

 

The plot thickens. After many phone calls, one issue is that they sent me the wrong kit, of course. Not sure how much of this will change the issue but it would help to have the right rod lengths.

 

The case and tail housing are a '64-'65 M20 or M21. Is it getting stuck between gears? I don't understand the stuck in 2nd gear thing completely. How does it drive?

The Comp Plus I have now on my M20 (in the shop... busted...) I had on a M21 that would get stuck between gears now and then. I made sure the shifter was adjusted with the 1/4" pin and the stop bolts adjusted per the instructions. On my M20, it shifts perfectly. I bought the shifter new in 1978, it only had about 4 years of use on it when I put it away for 30+ years.

I suspected something was wrong inside the M21 more than anything, it was sold maybe in 1982. But when It got stuck, it would take maybe 5 minutes of rocking it back and forth to in-jam it. I had to be careful not to park it on a grade with it left in gear.

 

Sucks that what once was a $149 shifter in one box is now a $500 shifter in 2 boxes...

 

And as I have reminded people here before, when using these early transmissions make sure to use GL-4 , (NOT GL-5) for lubrication, it's available from Sta-Lube and usually stocked at NAPA.
I wont go into detail but there's plenty of internet discussion on the subject.