Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Sheetmetal V8-60 Question.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by fortynut, May 5, 2018.

  1. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    IMAG0466_2.jpg IMAG0466.jpg I was visiting a friend. He showed me this V8-60 block. He is no slouch in the how-to business. Neither of us know the exact how-done of the welding of the cover to the block, even if it's obviously some version spot welding. Anyone know the details of how it was done?
     
    Bleach likes this.
  2. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,459

    6sally6
    Member

    Obviously somebody that's had a stinger in their hand before!
    Looks like a MIG weld with the heat turned up to insure good penetration. Pretty stuff........
    I've seen TIG that was NOT that pretty!
     
    fortynut likes this.
  3. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 1,136

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    I believe it was spot welded with multiple electrodes with the block moving for the next set of welds.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  4. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    These are factory welds, gentlemen. This is an original Ford block.
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.

  5. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 1,136

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Forty, I'm sure most of the guys know they're factory welds. The multiple electrode spot welding I mentioned is the way Ford did it if I recall correctly. Ford did a good bit of electric welding like wire wheel spokes and gas tank seams.
     
    fortynut and Bleach like this.
  6. xlr8
    Joined: Jun 26, 2006
    Posts: 700

    xlr8
    Member
    from Idaho

    I don't know how it was done but it was called hydrogen brazing.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  7. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    studebakerjoe, no harm meant. Others, may not be as advanced technologically, as you and others. It is amazing work and I know Ford was a very forward thinking company, despite Henry being very much a 'prove it to me' person, despite his unquestionable genius in many areas.
     
  8. I was racking my brain trying to recall where I've seen this type of welding before. When you mentioned gas tank seams, BINGO! that was it.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  9. Gary in MN
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 124

    Gary in MN
    Member

    fortynut likes this.
  10. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 660

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Always wondered why they tried the tin side and know at least two of the 21 stud big brothers with tin sides.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  11. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Really? I have never heard of such a thing, but I was wondering if it had been tried on other engines when I first came across this thread. Are these in a museum someplace? Perhaps the Ford museum in Dearborn?
     
    fortynut and Hnstray like this.
  12. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I think what I posted there was on the block structure only. Search my stuff using tinside, welding, things like that. I have more recently found and posted Ford's patent on the welding process. It's on here somewhere! I have several broader listings of patents on here somewhere too. My copies are buried somewhere since I retired and had to disturb my office pile!
    Ford was the absolute state of the art and metallurgy in many ways in those days. Look up stuff on the Model A procedures discussed in Ford books, and my posts summarizing axle beams, etc.
     
    bct and fortynut like this.
  13. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 660

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    This is the 21 stud big brother to the tin side V8-60.
     

    Attached Files:

    fortynut likes this.
  14. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you sure? I can't see enough of the block in question to be sure, but that timing cover in the first photo is definitely a V8-60 piece.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  15. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 5,053

    rusty rocket
    Member

    I thought I had heard the casting was not up to par on the blocks so they came up with the tin side to save the blocks.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  16. I got an idea that it was two fold. Casting plugs would have been easier to make and that would save money on the casting process. But I have also read that the engine was also intended to be used in the aircraft industry and tin sides would be a weight saver.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  17. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    I heard that Henry saw all his employees eating Campbell's soup on their lunch hour, and he devised a way to reuse the tin cans. The same way he used the wooden crates that vendors shipped parts in as the floorboards on Model T's.









    (Where's that "tongue in cheek" emoji?)
     
    tractorguy and fortynut like this.
  18. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    The exhaust bolt holes on a 'normal' 60 are vertical, fwiw.
     
    fortynut likes this.
  19. Alchemy,

    Don't forget that the Campbell's plant was/is in Camden, NJ- not far from his good buddy Thomas Edison- must've cut a deal with them to provide soup for corporate lunches :D
     
    fortynut likes this.
  20. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 660

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Besides what blowby mentioned above, the stud hole count on the deck is 21 and the front cover does not have provisions for the water pumps and the water outlets on the block don't come straight out like V8-60 but rather at 90 degrees and the hoses pass under the front mount.

    For comparison this is v8-60 front mount.
     

    Attached Files:

    fortynut likes this.
  21. I think the only one we got is this one. :rolleyes:
     
  22. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    Such wonderful people, all of you who answered and commented on this puzzler. If I was handing out a prize, I would be troubled by having to decide on a winner. I rather like the wit of Henry seeing the soup cans; and, porknbeaner may be on to something with the potential use as aircraft engines, although, this is several years after the Ford Trimotor airplane that was an astonishing solution to some of the issues involving commercial transportation, he may be on to something. If Henry Ford had an itch, from my reading on the subject, everyone in Ford Engineering scratched. My third choice is, of course, the ever knowledgeable Bruce Lancaster, whose answer, posted in the link by Gary in MN, tops everything thus far added in solving the question. I know as time passes this all will end up in the HAMB dustbin, but I won't forget the responses. My thoughts to you all, and Thank You Kindly.
     
    catdad49 likes this.
  23. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    This is getting scrambled...bear with me, don't know which parts of the old post below work.

    Stuff here is an ancient post on Ford Barn:

    From the discussion on HAMB...I posted the patent:

    Here's a patent on the block...look at # 41 in the drawings after opening the PDF. I don't see specifics on first glance.

    https://www.google.com/patents/US21....3dDRoQ6AEIJDAB

    OK...that didn't work...so go to google advanced patent

    http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search

    And seek out patent US2151423 open picture, #41 is the plate

    US2057794 seems to address the welding of this thing!
    (end of old barn post)

    Current rework, I checked the two patents and they are right. One covers the engine, older one is on machine and technology for the welding process! I don't think you'll find much more on this ancient detour without hiring a spiritualist.

    US2151423 shows the engine layout for the second generation 60...first generation exists only in England and France. Open PDF, text and pictures give you some reasons and as much info as you'll find.
    US2057794 from 1936 (iron 60's were already being sold via England and France) is about the welding machine and process, pretty wild. I'm not sure I understand much of it, but electrodes move into position and there are lots of them...I gather it's sort of stitch welding but done by gangs of electrodes!
     
  24. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Maybe someone can figure out how to post the patent illustrations and the explanatory texts...this stuff comes up fairly frequently on here!
     
  25. [​IMG][​IMG]

    Here you go Bruce- hope this works!
     
  26. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Cool! Also need the US2057794 to scare the hell out of anyone who thought he knew all about spot welding...this is, if I understand it, an ARMY of spot welders marching in formation!
    The patents both have text blocks as well, identifying details and at least partially explaining what they were up too.

    Another weird Ford of those times...Ford released what was called a lightweight 221 in '39, using a 60 type oil pump and a bunch of other features. I think it was sent out for sorta Beta testing, then recalled and swapped out for regular production motors. A few exist and have been discussed a bit in the V8 times I think. I do not know if it had tin sides! Ford was always experimenting on production methods and design, as with the tube axle used in limited production on '38-9 V8's.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.