Technical Stuck banjo and a few other banjo related questions

I had heard about the special bolts. They are all the same right? I mean I can toss them in a coffee can and not be particular which bolt goes in which hole when I bolt it back up right?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Pull the driver's side bell off first, then both axles and the carrier with ring gear will pull out as an assy, and you will know if it worth going deeper.

 

Right.

 

Or you can just by Key Stock at the local hardware store. It should be a straight key (as in not a woodruff key) and it will be square, just take a tape measure and measure it. I have used square shank screw driver shanks cut to length (again a tape measure will do).

The properly fitting hubs torqued properly is a correct answer to the weak link question. But yes the keys are the week link in the drive train and yes that was done on purpose.

I know today that you have to have the proper puller to get the hubs off. That was not the case when I was learning though and I learned to pull them with a crows foot a long time before I ever knew that you have to have the proper puller. I am giving you this bit of wisdom so you'll know that if I am working one anything with a keyed hub for you that I will not be using the proper puller just in case that sort of thing is important to you.

As for stuck if you can't break it free with your biggest channel locks of pipe wrench or vise grips or whatever you deem to be your best tool of destruction you will probably have to take it apart.

 

It's coming apart today.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Never thought a puddle of oil leaking out the pinion on a rear end would be a welcome sight. Might not be that bad.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Gears look good. And I believe the problem and ehy it wont turn is the amount of schmutz around the pinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

those two rivets at the back of the pinion bearing were holding a metal plate at one time. lets hope it didnt get chewed up in all the parts. you wont know condition of anything until its all washed up. good luck

 

And she's flipped. I do not antivipate any clearance issues. Stupid question but how wide is a Model A rear spring?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

I did wash it all up with engine degreaser before I put it back together. Doesn't look bad. Even dumped 2 quarts of generic 90 weight in there to keep stuff rust free for now. When I get all of my rear end parts I am going to completely tear it down and do a full rebuild on it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Rusty is that plate necessary? Also, I lost one of the banjo bolts in the grass. Anyone know where I might pick up an original?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

from my limited experience, that rear pinion bearing is one of the weak points of the banjo. most i have torn down, that rear bearing has spun in the housing, or wrecked the end of the pinion shaft. the bearing should be a tight fit in the case, so theoretically, i guess the tin plate would not be doing much after its assembled. if your not going to tear it down all the way for inspection, i guess you could run it without....i have never done it that way. i have lots of bolts, if you cant find yours, send me an address and you'll get a bolt. the long one with the funny head?

 

The short one that goes in the side of the case that holds the bell on. Eventually I will tear the whole thing down. But I don't want to do it again until I have my hubs, new bearings, races, seals, backing plates, and open drive kit in hand. For now she'll work the way she is. Then when I have everything in hand, my wishbones chopped to the length I need and bungs for heims welded on, as well as straightened (they are slightly bent, but that should be no big deal, torch , a piece of leftover frame tubing, and a bottle jack and straightedge) I'll tear it all down again, go through and replace and reseal stuff, give her a good coat if paint and get her ready to roll down the road. Funny part is I went to NAPA this morning and from my facebook posts the manager knew I bought this rear and has already ordered all of the parts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

I have certainly seen worse than that, it must not have had a bunch of water in it for long. Looking at the pictures really the worst thing I see is the axles themselves. the have not had hubs on them in a long time and the way the hubs work and keep from spinning is a combination of a tapered seat fit and the keyway. If the Hub cannot seat properly on the tapered surface of the axle the key will shear off eventually. you need to get all the rust of the axle ends and polish the surface as best you can. then use a new key nut and gasket to torque the hub down. look up 3rd Gen V8 on ebay, he has all the bearings and gaskets you need for this stuff at great prices.

Also it sounds like you are going to split the wishbones and use those to locate the rear. You can do that, but you have got to beef them up, Add another link to the top and make them into ladder bars. The wishbones are rather light metal by them selves and will twist up and break with even a worn out flat head if not beefed up. they were never used originally to locate the axle. The torque tube did that, that's why it so dam heavy. just beef up your wishbones and they will be fine.

 

George a magnet on a rod(home depot) will find that bolt.

And where in Texas are you?

 

That is also on my list. Going to have to figure out how to reinforce the wishbones and not get in the way of the spring since it sits in front of the axle now. Next stupid question, I plan to use these rear shock mounts, behind the axle. Is there anything that would preclude me from making a spacer for the top to take up the space that will bw occupied on the bottom by the lower wishbone mount?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

George...After polishing the tapers on your axles, take the drums (hubs) you are going to use, and apply some valve grinding compound to the axle tapers. Without the axle keys, work the hubs in half-turns, lapping in the fit. When the surfaces are matched, chances of breaking keys are minimal.
When hand-lapped in this manner, the final fit is..."Real George"! ...to coin an old phrase.

 

The Panhandle, about an hour north of Amarillo. And all my magnet did for me was find all of the busted pieces of cotter key I had to shear off ti get the backing plate bolts off.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

I will do that. But honestly, they're a lot better than they look in person.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

You need to swap the housings side for side. You can't just rotate them. A Model A rear spring will fit just fine on those hangers.

 

That's what I did was swapped them side to side.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Ive done that with any banjo that has been apart for a long time or putting new hubs on an old axle. works like a charm. Just make sure you get all that valve grinding compound out when you are done.

 

Do you know what the arch is on an A rear spring? I found a guy 2 towns over that likes to swap parts and has a TON of old original model A parts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

I'm using original hubs, so what I will probably do is lap them before I throw them in the hot tank. That SHOULD get all the lapping compound off. 600 grit be ok or do I need finer? I ask because my other hobby is guns and I keep 600 on hand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Is the rear end upside down in the picture? If it's not the hangers are. The arch of the hanger should be up.

 

Not off the top of my head. I've used a stock Model A spring on a '40 rear and it works great.

 

If you flip the axle bells side for side you should not need a spacer at all. the wishbones will still be on the bottom of the axle bell just bolt them on the back and you should have no problem. I have a set on the rear of my 39 and the fit great and are very heavy duty.

As for reinforcing the wishbones. Take a look at these that belong to my friend Ben. He built a really kick ass pair of wishbones using 36 rear wishbones. you can do pretty much the same thing with yours, you will also have to use an a Rear spring to clear everything but it will work just fine and look cool as well. below is the link to Bens 3 window build. he builds some kick ass stuff to say the least.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-394-b-32-ford-3w.1009026/page-5

 

I would clean the hubs and the axle first, then polish the tapered area up on the axle with some emory cloth. make sure the inside of the hub is real clean and free of debris. Then put a coat of machinist layout fluid (dykem) on the tapered part of the axle. Once its dry, take the clean dry hub and slide it all the way on and rotate it on the axle for a few revolutions. Then take the hub back off and you can see where there is good contact on the hub and where it is not. Seems like over kill but I have done this and had almost half of the tapered portion of the axle still have layout fluid on it after marking with the hub. once you have done the lay out fluid and marking with the hub, you can use the valve grinding compound to true the areas together and form a complete seat. you may have to do the Layout fluid 4 or five times on it to check the mating surfaces and how you are progressing. this will take some time,but doing this is the best way I have found for getting a good seat on the axle.

 

If it is it was when I got it too. Thats how they were when I picked it up. But I'll double cgeck when I get back to the house.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

Thats how it sits now. And how it was when I got itm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk