Projects Want to put my fat fender on the road .... Need some info / advice ...

Welp, I won't tell you what to do but I'll share with you what I did. I subframed my 53 ford pickup with a 70s Z-28 clip [original frame was torched up sumthin terrible to get a 350 Olds motor in it] and put a 301 SBC in it. Loved the low stance, variable ratio power steering, power disc brakes and the 1.25" stabilizer bar...it was a joy to drive but I had to box about 3 feet of frame to make it safe.
My 49 ford coupe had a cherry, original frame under it but I wanted it low....flipped the original spindles, used cut down Olds coils, heated and bent the steering arms down for tie rod clearance [that made them shorter for faster steering with the original box], rebuilt the original brakes and front end bushings, steering parts and again, I used a GM 1.25" stabilizer bar....it drove as good as the subframed truck for less work and I never worried about my welds breaking on the 49 coupe.
If I had it all to do over again, I'd do it just the way I did it on both vehicles again. The 50s mopars can be made to drive and brake ok with original suspensions with a little work.

 

Leave the Chevy engine and trans in the S10!

 

Lets step back a minute. If you have a lot full of donor cars, what are you working with. That may help determine direction. Im assuming V8 swap, what do you have in mind.

Sounds like Rocky has the info on how to make these work.
Are the original suspension and brake parts readily, some brands and years arent supported well.

 

They are all helpful, maybe just not what you want to hear.
People are different and have different points of view, yours seem to be more progressive since you feel the underpinnings do not matter much. Frame swaps and front clip jobs get deleted around here for sure, a MII kit has slim chance of sneaking in illegally. So if that's the info you seek you'll not find much of it here. Be careful because most kits are a huge compromise and the only thing they really fit on and work properly on is a mustang.

A frame swap "sounds" easy to anyone who hasn't done it. They aren't and the list of modifications seems endless. If the under pinnings do not matter, I'd suggest you check out these guys, give them a call, cruise the site and check the videos. https://lsswap.parts/ They offer best best DIY package service delivered running on a skid you'll find anywhere at prices that are too cheap relative to the services provided. Then it gets even better when you talk to them because they have off menu services that are un beatable. It's hard to best an LM7 swap.

I looked briefly to find some info on the 49 dodge frame but couldn't find what I needed to help.

 

No kit available here.
Just some measuring, research, off the shelf parts and the result is simple mounting plate to tie it all together.

 

Forget the dodge. spend a bit more and get a tri five chevy. Then the engine brakes and whatever updates you want will be readily available and bolt in. Your iffy welding skills will not be tested. Whatever money you put in the dodge will never be recouped. After your done the Tri Five will likely net you some profit. Squirrel fixed a Edsel and he has the special talent to make low dollar stuff work. and when he sold after his walkabout I believe even he lost money. Your dodge is a money pit. And should that Tri Five break down on the route 66 trip you can find parts. About a year ago a guy bought what was claimed to be a restored mechanically perfect Ecoloine Van in Calif. Him and his buddy and their wives flew out and where driving the route 66 back to New Jersey. and the steering sector went out near Springfield Mo. They where towed to a hot rod shop in Springfield. And a steering sector or parts where not to be found. so they where planning on abandoning the van and having to come back and trailer it home. It happened a HAMB member can by that shop. and he suggested asking on the HAMB. and I seen the post. And I did have a van with a good sector in my hoard. So the rented a car and drove to my place and bought the parts. had that van been a Tri Five chevy the parts would be easy to locate.

 

You're on a traditional rod and custom forum. Key word is "traditional". Don't expect a bunch of traditional rod and custom fans on a traditional rod and custom forum to be thrilled about discussing a non-traditional build.

I'd suspect that a great deal of us own (or at least appreciate) non-traditional builds. Heck, my '59 Studebaker Lark will be going the pro touring route, so I don't talk about that here.

But if you want to go deep into the weeds on such a project (especially the cloaked S-10), you may need to find another forum to discuss it. That's just the rules here, and we knew it when we signed up.

 

Fix the six


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Nearly all the available info on a 46-48 Plymouth or Dodge will apply to your 49 Dodge. Very little under the sheet metal changed, the 49 was the first body revision after the war in the Mopar camp.

If your frame is still straight and not a rust bucket, I would stick with it. (I have done all three of your scenario to 46-48 Plymouths).
A disc brake conversion is cheaper and provides better brakes then rebuilding the original drums. Add a firewall mounted master cylinder. Rebuilding the original suspension is pretty straight forward, and most parts are available at NAPA, Orielly's, and several other parts stores. You will want to relocate the front upper shock mounts to the frame. If your car doesn't have a front sway bar, ones from a modern Jeep fit. Adding power steering is a pain, the old Dodge will steer pretty well without power steering once the front suspension is rebuilt, cleaned up and greased.
I'd replace the rear axle with something modern.
Add a modern motor and trans. Be creative, there are other motors then a GM motor that will fit and are just as reliable. Offsetting the motor & trans about an inch and a half towards the passenger side from center adds a lot of steering column clearance.
It sounds to me like you would fit in and be much happier over at www.Killbillet.com Gene

 

Later engine, trans,rear end, wiring harness and AC. Can you get it done this year? Or a tri-five like old wolf said. I really like that idea. But it sounds like you"re stuck on the mopar. Sounds like a cool trip, no matter what the car.

 

This car has factory coil spring imdependent front suspension. Typical of all Early IFS it uses king pin spindles instead of ball joints. This can be good as later Mopar 60s-70s front ends were .....let's just say problematic. The engines were great on those later cars but the cars themselves.....maybe not the best.

These cars were all inline six. The Chrylers had some inline 8s in these years. In 51 you see the V8s but these were the big updated models.

The brakes are Lockheed likely with the single piston dual wheel cylinders. One on the top the other on the bottom. Each cylinder pushes a brake shoe. Honestly in good condition it seems to be a good design for the period.
The draw backs.....double the number of cylinders means doubling the number of connections and points of leakage and failure.
It may be possible to find Bendix type brakes that will fit from a later 50s model. If not......I know for a fact disk brake conversions are available for these cars at around 700 bucks. This includes hubs, calipers, disks and mounts.....pretty much bolt on.

Rear axle...open drive typical of the period. If you do an engine and drive train swap, original brakes are not an option as the original emergency parking brake was a drum behind the transmission. So if you d a transmission swap you have no mechanical brake.

Frame...these cars had a stout closed channel frame with a pretty substantial cross member. Unfortunately Mopars tend to rust but if it is intact.....it a good platform. By the rear axle the frame is an open channel. Look for rust out at the rear spring hanger area.

All in all the frame, front suspension and steering for these cars is pretty good as long as it has not been compromised by corrosion.

The flat 6 was a good little engine with some hop up parts available.....Since you have no interest.....no need to go there.

Since it was an inline car wide V8s can be problematic for the original steering. As said a slant 6 is a good option as is a Chevy 250 and maybe even a Ford 300. The Ford is long so a tape measure is your friend.

For a V8.....it may need to be off center to the passenger side. Exhausts may be a problem but this has been done.

My recommendation.....

Put disks up front with the original suspension and steering. Replace the rear axle....so you have a parking brake. I believe the car is on 5x5.5 like a Early Ford or Ford truck to 1996. A F100 up to 1972 rear axle should fit and it has the original wheel pattern. I'm not sure the disk kit for these cars are on 5x5.5. If not I would match the rear axle to the front disk pattern.
Engine....slant 6 would be my first choice. A 318, 360 or the vernable small block Chevy would be my choice for V8s. Auto transmission with a floor shift.
Wire the car for 12 volts....

If the chassis is rusted beyond repair....I would find a better candidate with a good chassis like Dodge, Plymouth or big Chrysler 3 window Coupe.

 

You should add that as your signature

Wonder what the speed limit on RT66 is?

My armchair opinion is not worth much, here it is anyways.
The rear end on these old mopars suck, they have the tapered axles That may or may not come out with the proper huge drum puller and BFG. And you can order replacement wheel cylinders from china that probably leak out of the box.
Replace the axle with a jeep cherokee or a ford explorer.

The ifs is pretty decent and not worth changing, I went with rustyhope disk brake conversion on my 49 pickup, there are other options also.
Next is a modern master cylinder, the jeep is good here but many options to match your front disk and rear brakes you actually end up with. (you will need some basic fab skills to mount it)

Converting it to 12 volt negative ground is just work and not rocket science.

I really cant offer advice on which motor to use, I will say to at least start the flathead up and see if it runs, it would make trading stock if nothing else.
They made that fh up into the 1970's, it is a very stable and good engine, but they do not like high RPM, I think about 3600 is peak and if you try to drive it at those rpm it will toast the bearings.
Be honest with yourself, if you want speed this is not it.

 

After reading this thread I think this is good advise.

I have done a few Mopars and my '51 Plmouth with a revised stock front end drives very well. I see no need for a frame or sub-frame swap. The flatheads are ok with more modern carburetion and electrical. An overdrive trans is the biggest improvement.

 

I guess we all have different views on the term "traditional".... To me I guess it doesn't matter what the chassis is, as long as the look is correct ... I guess it would be the curbside model car of the real car world , everything you could see when it was parked at the curb would be period correct... I am considering keeping the stock frame and working off of it, but I don't want to deal with the stock steering and it seems like if I'm not willing to use a stock part from when Lincoln was president I can't get any advice... I've been studying what parts I can swap to a stock frame, what swap kits are on the market , and how I can upgrade to disc brakes using my Stocks spindles, etc. but I come back to the point of I don't want to spend $10,000 on a $3000 car .... So I guess if this isn't the place for me , so be it .. The Mopar purests sent me here because of what I was trying to accomplish, I understand though I've never really fit in anywhere ..I guess I'm just on my own , off the garage and going to build what I want .... ✌️

 

Who died and left them the all knowing one with infallible wisdom?
Who says they made the right decision for you?
Did they read the rules for you?

You've had a bunch of replies on doing exactly what you want to do that land in your time frame, skill level and budget. Ignore it at your own risk.

 

Okay, but while you're at it, don't forget this:

 

Please understand that I'm not trying to push you out. Just letting you know that some of your plans may go against the purpose of this forum.

If the look will be traditional, lots of people on the H.A.M.B. (including me) would love to see that part of the build chronicled here. And we'll be rooting you on as we share our insights and opinions!

As for the parts of the build that don't fit this forum's mission, I'm sure there are gobs of gearheads on other forums willing to share ideas and advice about that part.

The internet is a pretty big place. There's room for all of us, somewhere.

 

Here's some inspiration:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/575886/

The Definitive "MILD CUSTOM" Photo Thread....

 

And some more...
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/946075/

Kustoms blues? I need to see some kustoms....

 

you've been given sound advice it would be to your best interest to take notice.when I was a young man in the early seventies I always built my rides with a donor car start with a low mileage good running car and strip everything engine,tranny,driveshaft,rearend,wheels,steering column,brake master and pedals. rebuild stock front suspension or independent torsion bar suspension from a late seventies to middle eighties valorizes work very well and are easy to install. use what you have in that donor lot you speak of .motor and tranny mounts can be made and welded to any car for any motor. I drove a 54 ford pu for 10 years some years as my only driver built from a donor 71 torino probably the most dependable ride I ever had I know I never had more than a thousand dollars in it.

 

It was Truman.

Did it occur to you that maybe just maybe we are trying to help? Many of us have been there. Many of us have seen the results of frame swaps and clips gone wrong.

There is a term I use.....Craigslist Special. These Specials are abandoned projects. Projects where the steering column hits the chin of the driver.....wheels nowhere near where near where they are supposed to be...bodies on crooked.....floors chopped up....major things that just will not work.....over all, the builder did not have the skill or resources to pull it off.

The closer you stay to stock the better you will be. The further you go the more money either in hard cash or time you have to spend.

10,000 on a 3000 dollar car......
No option for you is going to be cheap. That car needs everything. A few grand will get it back stock because you have that stuff. It just a matter of renewal.

Modified. A few more grand in material and gaining skill or paying so someone else either to teach you or learn by trial and error which means doing things.....and then tearing it apart and re doing because it did not work out the first time or the second or maybe even the third time. Remember time is money.

The goal should be the car not the trip. Doing the car is the trip.

If it is all about the trip, sell that car even at a loss and you will be way ahead. Save up some dough even if I takes a couple of years and buy you a runner. A car you can drive.

 

Option one for me. My dad was a Plymouth man, had 4 new ones between ‘49 and ‘54. I learned to drive in them and he drove them all over the place and they drove just fine. My first car was a slightly souped up ‘40 Plymouth coup which would run all day at 60 mph. For freeway driving you may need to look at the rearend gearing. I’d put a split exhaust manifold, mill the head and maybe duel carbs with a rebuild and go through the suspension and drive it.

 

I guess since everyone is pushing for traditional build, how the hell am I supposed to lower the front of this car ? Can I adapt a late-model master cylinder with the original brake system?

It's not that I'm dead set on trying to do a frame swap, or I'm dead set on trying to put a Camaro subframe. But I work for a tow company and I have seriously over 150 cars at my disposal that I can pick and choose parts from ..... And if that makes things a little bit cheaper on me its certainly a smart way to go ... Sort of like I know that with a Butch's mount kit I can use an F body rear end , or swap a 318 , or 350 in with the same companies product ...will I have arguments with everyone when it comes time to make these mods and I have questions? Is it not a traditional enough modification? Is putting a 350 not traditional enough, even though the basic foundation, the 283 has been around since 1955 ??

As far as doing the work myself, I know what I canning cannot do ...but I also know that everything is a learning curve ... if I cannot do something, and I study and practice - pretty soon I ought to be able to do it right? I taught myself how to paint cars, went on to become ICAR certified , and for almost 20 years I was a painter . Same with everything else I'm done, I taught myself how to install hydraulics, I taught myself how to do upholstey . I'm not saying I will get everything right the first time, but I really hate paying other people to do things for me.

I have peanuts in buying the 49 , but I also know it's not worth much at the end of the day . And I really can't see plugging thousands and thousands of dollars into this car ....

 

I'm not trying to tell you to be traditional. You asked for advise and I think most of the advice is that the front end and frame are quite usable with some updates.

I used a 318 and 904 trans with a truck pan and A body exhaust manifolds on my '51, it fits very well - with a small offset to the passenger side as was done on the A bodies - Duster, Dart, etc. and drives great. Is that traditional hot rodding? Yep, it goes faster, stops better and is fun to drive.

Although you want to learn how to do it all you might be ahead to pay for skilled welding on the structural elements. Might save money and time in the long run. You are correct that the amount of money you spend on a '49 Dodge four door may not be good investment. It will cost the same for parts for a four door as a convertible and one is going to be worth a lot more for the same effort. None of this is cheap any more.

 

I think if you read what people have actually been saying, a lot have been saying to do exactly that.

 

I posted before how you can remount the spring plate on the lower control arms, it will drop it down an 1 1/2" and its basically free. Take a good look at the front suspension, the shocks go from lower arm to upper arm. You can install F1 shock mounts on the frame, and discs on the front should be pretty easy. There is a thread on here somewhere that shows how a guy did it with junkyard Explorer parts, and homemade brackets. He also posted a PDF file of the brackets for folks to copy. There's a ton of info out there, put "hamb" into what you are searching for and I find you get better results than using the search here. Just my results, yours may vary. That thing looks pretty solid, and pretty darn straight.

 

Also, a 65 to 66 full size rear is supposed to be a bolt in, I think most of those had 3.23's or higher. One more thing, like an old friend always said about his boat addiction, you can't put a price on a good time.

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/48-hemi-plym-mock-up-pics.847329/page-2
You might get some ideas from this thread

 

My current ride is a '50 Dodge Coronet coupe with a 318/727 combo. I aquired the car this way in a swap, so I can't give you first-hand advice on how it was done. I can tell you that it is a tight fit but seems to be working well so far...

I have been upgrading vital systems for safety and reliability, and am currently retrofitting a dual master cylinder mounted on the fire wall.

I like the idea that the Dodge is all Mopar!