Anyone ever see the 308 Hornet motor running a supercharger? I'm looking for a little bit more bang in my buck.
Uncommon Engineering seems to have done it, but I don't know if they ever actually sold any parts... http://www.uncommonengineering.com/ But rather than doing a roots setup, I would think trying to grab one of those Stude paxton/McCulloch blowers would be the ticked for a hudson 6.
Uncommon engineering wants $13.5k plus my engine as a core not including dizzy, carb, or alternator. For that kind of money I think I can buy a crate late model hemi from Cleveland PAP. I'm either in the wrong business or the wrong hobby. Those guys that have seen it done by people they know, what was required? I am sure the engine needed some beefing up first? What sort of budgets are we talking about?
I have never seen a blown Hudson. But I am sure it could be done and work well. What is the intended use for the engine? How much boost do you think you want to run? Roots, centrifugal or twin screw? I ran a turbocharged GMC for several years with no special work done to it except for cam and piston choice. Cooling was an issue, but the engine was run at 17 pounds boost for 3 miles at a time.
You know, $13.5 isn't really that bad if you're going to end up with a complete rebuild with the blower (I assume that's what you mean by 'core')... Sure it sounds like a big number up front but if you ignore Chevy LS prices, that's not a whole lot of cash as compared to some of the other 'hobby' engines... A late model hemi, isn't a real hemi and just wouldn't be the same. That said, I'm sure you could build anything from a y-block to an Olds to any number of vintage OHV engines for less than that if you started with a good core. For basically a complete one-off engine that maybe only a couple guys in the country have, Uncommon seems fairly reasonable. That is if the bill doesn't skyrocket as soon as they have your 'core'...
I've run superchagers at low boost on a couple stock motors, both of which were in good shape. You feel some difference as low as 4lbs, and quite a bit at 7lbs. Street use, not race motors. The McCulloch/Paxton's are going to take a little playing around with for pulley size to get the boost in your rpm range. This all assumes that the exhaust side will get the additional air out. You also don't want to overrev them, they fail. If the ring seal isn't good, it'll get worse even at low boost. Lots of info from the Stude guys, or Craig Conley at Paradise Wheels. Several other good rebuilders also.
OP; Most OEM mills from the 50s->, if in good shape, should be able to tolerate 5-6lbs boost w/o issue. Was done back then, just not as often, as you usually had to buy new superchargers - they took a chunk of change ( read a much greater % of disposable income than now). In a very real sense, this probably should/will be, a homegrown project. Depends on what you want - including eye-candy & sparkle. Best bang for the buck would be a turbo. Not "traditional" but... I suppose you could do a 'belt-drive turbo' (blow-thru only). If you're crafty, you could make it look a like an old INDY centrifugal. You'd need a very large n old turbo (compressor, housing, backing plate, & shaft. + bearings[not turbo]/etc) off of a diesel v-8, or better a v-12. Watch the tip speed & bearing speed). It's not quite as simple as it sounds, but it isn't quite rocket science, either. (I had a line on a v-12 one, got stolen before I could get to it... ;( ). Whatever you do, don't get into a boost-amount-bragging deal. Not worth it, for a lot of reasons. For the street, size it to boost ~ 5-6 lbs at ~ 3000-3500 rpm. If you want a better thrill, size it for ~ 1800 rpm, but make very sure to use a wastegate to limit the boost to 5-6 lbs. from wherever up to redline. (There's a couple of ways to do this to get close, using J.Y. parts. It won't be perfect, but close, & cheap. & it'll work). Which, btw, keep the rpm's at the OEM level. That will help keep the mill alive for a long time. Larry Widmar states: "RPM = Ruins Peoples' Motors), & he's right. (If built to take the rpms, will also ruin the pocketbook). & stock cams usually work well, believe it or not. Porting & better valves, rings n bearings, n balance-job are worth it if you're doing a rebuild. Better quality pistons are always nice, but even a lot of the stock-type cast ones will go near 15psi. Not for long, & your tune better be better than perfect, but... . For a blow-thru, don't bother w/a carb box (little more than a major PITA - & doesn't work worth a damn), just use a carb hat along w/a good sealed modern carb. Worth it in both short & long run. & under 10psi (blow-thru), I wouldn't bother w/an intercooler (NEVER w/a drawthru)- again not worth it. You certainly can use a Paxton, rebuilt, iirc, runs ~ $800 +/-. + hardware/accessories to get it usable. The Paxton was sized for a much smaller mill (~151->225 cid, iirc), but will work up to ~ 300 cid. There's a couple of versions available. The measured boost in the blower outlet was ~ 5-6psi, but in the manifold it was only 2-3psi. & yet, the studes hauled arse. & still do. A GMC blower works hung on the side, some chev 6's have done this, could do it same way. Or a Latham. If it helps. you could try perusing a couple of old forums: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CARBURETEDBLOWERS/info https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/drawthrusuper-turbochargers/info I'll approve you, but it'll take awhile, as I'm not on the forums much. Or newer: http://racingstudebakers.com Supercharged Hudson should plant a smile on your face that a dentist couldn't get off. Hope to see it here! Marcus...
Just stumbled across this. Jack Clifford started out with hudsons and for good reason. Smokey Yunick loved them also. Take a Clifford intake and if you have a spare block (this being flathead ) bolt the intake on and mill the carb flange away. Call B and M up and tell them you want a blower manifold base gasket for a 144 street blower. Make a box weld to the manifold (where the carb was ) and then Use blower gasket for opening and drill and tap mounting holes. Keep level with the block deck. That way it's in line with crank or parallel to it. Since your intake is on the pass side use the chevy sbc blower from B and M. You can get different length input housings and they all interchange even between the 144 and 177 and all lengths interchange. I used one from a small lock Ford. I bought it used. Whole set up. 1000$ Kept everything but the manifold. Sold it. I redrilled the bottom pulley and used it also. Yes it cleared water pump and I ran the serpinteen belt had to machine a new plate to bolt on the spring tensioner but it worked perfect. Had to make headers or buy a used set and cut up to suit. All this was on a 250!chevy six. With a stock bottom end other than cam ran deep in the 10,s at bowling green. No it's not a Hudson but I had no previous experience in this and as long as your not in a hurry no reason you can't do the same. Here's mine from bowling green.
Buy the way sold this motor to a guy in the Denver area. He put it in a 55 Chevy on the street. He's been in a lot of trouble since then I bet. Lol
This urban legend has been around the hobby forever, but I've never seen it successfully done. Making a belt driven supercharger from a junkyard industrial turbocharger is definitely not as simple as it sounds. I know a Studebaker guy who believed Dick Datsun and spent more than a Novi/Vortech/ProCharger/et al, would have cost and he had a pile of unreliable crap. Your opinions and results may differ. jack vines
Jack; Have you ever seen Doug Robertson's Blown GMC powered 32 Coup? Doug did just that and sold them to anybody with money. Doug's car was fast as are all of his cars. Horsepower Engineering.
I know I’m waking a dead thread here but I’m very interested in supercharging or turbocharging my hudson 262 . Looking for someone that has done it reliably and can shoot me some info on how they did their setup . Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
... carbureted and not a 13k build . Looking for reasonable and reliable , like most cheaper the better ,haha Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
One overlooked weakness of flatheads in general is that the exhaust valve is not well cooled in most cases. This means under extreme stress you get burned valves, valve seats, and cracks in the block. Turbocharging leads to higher exhaust temps and can cause problems. I would go with the Paxton centrifugal blower. They work well with a flathead for various reasons. Flatheads usually have good 'punch' at low RPMs but run out of breath at higher revs. The centrifugal blower remedies this without causing knock and ping at lower RPMs. Flatheads are limited in the compression ratio you can use without restricting breathing, less than 8:1 and usually under 7.5:1. This low compression goes well with supercharging. You can often find a used Paxton for $500 or less that came off someone's Mustang. In the fifties Paxton or McCulloch claimed a 40% increase in rear wheel horsepower from 5 pounds boost and this is not unreasonable. It is also what you could expect of a real good conventional hop up with high compression aluminum head, cam, twin carburetors and dual exhaust. But all you need is a supercharger and a stock engine no need for expensive hard to find parts. The supercharger setup is fairly straight forward. You have to mount it on the engine, drive it off the crankshaft, and get the air to the carburetor. Then you need to richen the main jet and pressurize the fuel pump and possibly add an electric fuel pump for more flow and pressure. There are experts like John Erb who can tell you how it is done.
That’s not too bad . Do you know anyone that has done a Paxton on a hudson ? Trying save time by trying to not reinvent something if someone has already figured it out . Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Are there particular years of mustang super chargers to look for ? Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
They didn't come on Mustangs. I think you could get a dealer installed Procharger or Vortec. At least so many Mustangs at the Silver State had them I understood it was an Option. Lots of Eaton roots blowers on Tbirds and such about 20 years ago and still I guess. You might have to look on online sales like Racing Junk and the Bay. I think it's been around 60 years since Paxton blowers came on new cars. Maybe wrong. I have an Eaton for sale in case you want it. Came off a Super Coupe with low miles.
I think this is what rusty was talking about https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/292512693575 Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Is your Eaton like this ? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/232219360420 Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I’m going Judson. 5-6 pounds is plenty. Figure roughly 10-12 hp gains per pound of boost (Currently 35 lbs on my f250).. Ive ran 6 lbs on a 1.8l before and had it as high as 20. (Injection kits are nice at these higher post levels. I’ll be trying it on a my flathead. Also, egts can be controlled with mixture and timing. They can be overfueled etc. High compression is not the best thing, but really makes it fun.
Sorta. But without the tail. As you can see you would need to build a carb mount or something with mine. $200 and I pay ship.
Not sure I can get that to fit with out hood modifications . Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
How do you figure the cfm of a carb to use and exhaust size when you add a super charger ? Did a few google searches but it gives info on newer engines or getting HUGE gains Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Check out post #12 above. Decide how much boost you expect to get at WOT. calculate CFM in conventional way and ad in percentage increase you expect. I wouldn't worry much about exhaust unless you are going to add headers. Maybe go up 1/4 inch if you want to.
What about fuel pressure and volume , don’t want starve the engine and burn it up that way Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I think the reconfiguring / fabrication it would take to pull off the post 12 setup is more than I want to deal with . I want to be able to pull the setup off and return to stock if I want to fairly easily Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Fuel pressure depends on your carburetor. Larger main jets would be called for, no doubt. On post 12 there are two roots type blowers on Hudson engines. One on either side. If you can't do fabrication, I don't know what to tell you. Any blower is going to require fab work.
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