Technical ***March 2018 Banger Meet - Equinox Time***

DAN

I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND THIS BUT WE ALL MUST CHECK THE WORK OF OTHERS. NO MATTER HOW GOOD PEOPLE ARE THEY CAN STILL MAKE MISTAKES. THESE YOU'LL PAY FOR ...WE ALL HAVE ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

 

BLUTO : A RESOUNDING "AMEN" TO YOUR LAST POST!!! & MANY THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTARY!! AGAIN: THANK YOU!!!

 

Sounds pretty exciting if it comes to fruition as envisioned.
So that 5 main crank will work with Tods' block or need mods ?
Do you have the specs on that crank to share, i.e.- so that company that made can be contacted for another, as I suspect that that company has print on file and that would make it easier ? PM my if that's easier, thanks.

 

Well..Sooner or later, given higher compression and running a stock, not totally gone through A or B engine much above 2500 to 3000 rpm (particularly above 3000) something's gonna give. "Been There-Done That"!

 

I don't know the specs on that "New" 5 main block; but if Tod were smart he'd have designed it to be fitted with a Crower 5-main crank. They've been producing them for years. They're not cheap. But it beats trying to grind one out "One you're Own"!

 

Well, the 5 main blk is being made with the lower specs of a B engine. Dan's crank was specifically made for a B engine, for an old racer/machinist.
With B sized lower block specs, I suppose that any competent crank maker could make a crank to fit...if you have the $.
However, I happen to agree with your choice of Crower. I understand, from crower and from racer friends, that they have made 5 main B cranks. I run Crower inserted rods for years and like their products. Can't remember things/details well anymore, but seem to remember that Donovan 5 main cranks are made by Crower. No matter who makes such crank, they are ALL very expensive ! Too damn expensive, IMV.. But, truism is that if you want to play.....ect, ect...
Years ago, Tod and I discussed his making the B block for OHV heads only. Bluto touched on some benefits of less is more sometimes. More cooling capacity and stronger and less to go wrong. One of Tods problems, maybe #1, is that he has to operate his business to profit. We tried surveying to see if 'people' would want this or that or anything.
It was/is like trying to herd cats !

 

I think Tod's #2 problem is ADD.

He likes to start projects. I'd like him to finish some of the ones he
has started before he gets into others.

My frustration.

The crank I will be using will fit Tod's block. It is made by Moldex and they have been making them for years. The 3 stock main journals are the same as B. The rod journals are SBC. The rods are custom made by Cunningham to specs used by many who have done this before.

.

 

Hey Dan, thanks for that information.
That #2 problem would NOT be good for any of us ! I'm tooo old to hear that. Don't know if a guy can overcome that.
He needs to hire qualified help. The problem is that he says , these days, there is no qualified help.

 

I can introduce you to a few banger guys out here! Will you be at The Jalopy Showdown in May?

 

I'm pretty new to the model a stuff. That said.... I know little, I'm learning the sayings and abbreviations, and have no idea of any shows. Wanting to learn more and anything going on. I have other old vehicles but the model a deal is a hole other ball game. Enjoying it a lot. So please pass anything along. Much appreciated

 

go if you can . start going to as many events as possible , ask questions (polite type) . the only dumb question is the one you don't ask . when I got my first "A" I lived in high desert with no one to ask . self taught is not always the way to go .

 

Yep, you'll definitely want to attend The Jalopy Showdown, May 19th and The Race of Gentlemen, June 8-10. Lots of banger folks there. If you see anyone wearing a Barnstormers jersey at either event, ask them to introduce you to Dave Conwill, and I'll take you around and make introductions to anybody I know out here. Or just talk to folks with interesting cars, my experience is that by and large, people are pretty friendly and willing to talk.

 

If folks would find it useful and be willing to PM me the information, I could add some info to the first post of each monthly banger meet about upcoming banger related events anywhere in the world. I am thinking Goodguys wouldn't count but let me know.

Jim

 

Here is a flyer for one of my favorite west coast Model A gathering.

 

Race of gentleman is something we have wanted to go to for a few years now. Would love to race in it. I have some things to learn yet and, I'm sure a stock "a" with a 2bbl carb isn't going to cut it. And I see they want heavily modified. (I looked into it already) Anyway, I have been looking for many years to find the right priced car and right project. Finaly I own one. So I have been bringing it back to life a little at a time. Learning from here too. Thank you for the invite to talk at the race. I think if everything looks good we might be able to make it this year.

 

With all the talk about five main blocks (Donovan's, Tod's and others); there's another alternative: A five main girdle! But, of course that has a lot of challenges too. First (and foremost) is finding one or someone to make you one. Also the increase of the height of the engine! Note the slim clearance to the Tarmac!

 

Not necessarily true, My latest one is 3-1/2" shorter than stock pan height.
Tod is doing a good job IMHO, we had some discussions early on when making the Block projects decisions.
Tod, has the best approach to building a marketable product. Honestly, a DOHC block would be the ultimate but the market would be so narrow world wide that it is not financially feasible. Trust me, the crank and rods will be the most economical part of building a motor like that.

J

 

I HONESTLY AGREE. THERE IS NO MARKET FOR THE OHC BLOCK ..
I AM REALLY NOT SURE THERE IS A REAL "MARKET" FOR THE 5-MAIN MODEL A EITHER REALLY.

BUT AS YOU KNOW WE BOTH DO THINGS WE JUST LIKE AND JUST FOR THE FUN.....

 

Question for you guys... I need a seat to put in my roadster. I'm 6'2" so I need to sit back. Can you guys show me pictures of what you have? I need ideas. Please and thanks.

 

I'm not saying that Tod's block is not going to do the job. What I'm saying is he is easily distracted. Since he pored the first block in March 2014 It only took him until July of 2016 to prove the casting, develop the machining process, and produce a running stock engine.

I sent him a deposit the first week of November for a block that only needed the sleeves to finish. Sleeves arrived Jan 4th. Since the he has designed patterns for a 8BA block, a model A OHV head, and V-8 60 heads among other things. He has money and castings in hand for blocks but doesn't have time to finish them.


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Here is a video of the firs block running.

 

I agree, the 5 main market is pretty slim. I have built about 10 of them, of those only one was for a street car. And it hasn't been driven yet.
I had a setup at the Antique Nationals race weekend a few years ago, when folks asked what it cost, I told them without the head and you supply a good block, it runs about $10k. Want a real race cam? They will run $1500.
It is the cheapest insurance you can buy. For example, some of you know I just snapped the driveshaft in the dyno.
Motor was running about 6000-6200 revs when it let go. The rev limiter caught it about 7500 revs and I shut it down.
Now with head removed, I see the damage, two bent pushrods, 6 bent valves where they touched the pistons and I still have to get the rods and bolts out to check. I am praying that only the bolts need replacing.

John

 

I wanted you to build me one and you keep saying you are too busy. And I know it will cost more then 10k when I'm done.

 

On another subject. I just got back from a meeting with the organizers. F.A.S.T. is putting on the "Trials" again this year on July 14th, with a gathering at another ranch Fri. 13th during the day. A "cook your Own" steak dinner at the San Luis Obispo Elks lodge Friday night.. Then on Sunday there is an "Early Ford" show in Atascadero Lake Park! Get registered early to avoid the crowd.

 

Dan,
I had thought too when Tod started this that it would a reasonable timeframe to get the blocks done.
I do know that the amount of people who wanted 5 mains dropped tremendously when the crank cost was revealed.
This was no surprise, it is an investment, toss in rods and you get the idea. I did find the patterns for some cast blanks but the story was no competent casting houses around or the patterns have problems.

ADD might be the difference between Genius and Insanity, it is a very fine line.

John

 

I am also waiting for Tod's 5 main blocks, have a deposit down for a cast iron one.

 

John,
Tod has my deposit for 3ea 5 main blocks. 2 of which have not been cast yet. I belive he has 5 ea iron and 2 ea. Aluminum 5 main blocks already cast and ready to machine. They are all sold. As far as I can tell that is more then he has cast of the stock 3 main blocks. There is a market. Certainly more demand then V8 60 stock heads. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just frustrated.

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Tod has been working on an OHV head that appears to be another Miller / Cragar clone. Is there a market that can sustain another one of those? Who is the market there?
You are well aware of the tight purse stringed nature of the Model A crowd.

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Dan,

I understand completely. Not that I know all, but I have been around long enough to witness the frustration.
This is another reason that I turn work away, I enjoy it so far, even though I don't have time to finish my junk.
I honestly don't know why anyone else would make another Miller OHV head.
Or another 4 port Riley for that matter. The market looking for an OHV is looking for something with more potential and that pretty much negates the Miller/Scofield.
At some point though, the Ford blocks will not adequate for these motors and that is where Tod will have an advantage.
J

 

Hey guys, found an old model A head! Hi compression head...

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