Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods Time to build a car

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by krylon32, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    Been trying to insure my new 32 5 window with Grundy. I sent them an a list of parts and labor to rebuild the body, chop the top, hang and fit the sheet metal, dissemble the body and chassis and prep everything for paint, paint ( black satin ) reassemble everything, wire, install the glass and finish the car to running. The total out side labor totaled about 30,000 dollars and translated into about 600 hours total time. Grundy said this many hours to build a quality hot rod were totally out of line and they took 15,000 off the labor time. they said 300 to 350 hrs to scratch build a car was more realistic. I thought this car went together rather quickly and did not include the time I put into the car. Question is, does 600 hr's sound unreasonable to build a high quality 32 fendered 5 window? Been doing this hot rod thing for over 40 years, I thought I had a good grasp on things?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  2. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    I can't build a complete car in 300 hrs and I got 40 years of experience. I'm wondering what build time has to do with car value as far as an insurance company would care. There are cars out there that to 100K to build just to be worth half that, hard to do but it can go the other way as well. A car is worth whatever value it has at the time of loss, that's all an insurance company should care about. I think I'd be looking into different carriers.
     
  3. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    Sounds like you need to shop for a new insurance company.
     
    JimSibley and 6inarow like this.
  4. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,329

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tell them that shop labor rate is $90/hr and they are about right on their labor hours....

    Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    clem, Clay Belt and 6inarow like this.

  5. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 8,025

    19Fordy
    Member

    I wonder if anyone at Grundy can build a complete hot rod in 10 weeks?
     
    6inarow likes this.
  6. I guess I don't understand why they care about build hours. When I got insurance from Grundy, I sent photos, described the car and what I thought the car was worth. They agreed and wrote an agreed value policy, done deal.

    Mick
     
    Uncle Bob, 1927graham and da34guy like this.
  7. They build 'm in a week on t.v.!
     
    28Hud and 41 C28 like this.
  8. The 39 guy
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    The 39 guy
    Member

    Hagerty didn't seem to care about build times or detail photos. They were only interested in what I valued the car at and insured the cars at that value. Now it may be different if I was to try to insure an unfinished project car.

    I can't see anyone building a quality car from scratch in 600 hundred hours......Maybe if you built the same car over and over again from the same brand new body with all new parts......... Personnaly my projects take thousnads of hours, but I am old and slow and try to do as much as possible in my modestly equiped shop.
     
    camer2 likes this.
  9. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 3,278

    Corn Fed
    Member

    Yes 600 hours sounds unreasonable to build a nice full fendered car. It would take me easily 3 or 4 times that many hours. Probably more.
     
    olscrounger, wvenfield and 6inarow like this.
  10. primed34
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 1,407

    primed34
    Member

    Grundy ain't the only game in town. I'd be shopping.
     
  11. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    That 600 hours was the outside labor to resurrect a rough channeled shell of a body, chop the top, install new wood, fit the body to the frame, hang the sheet metal, gap everything to paint stick gaps. Then onto the paint shop where they dissembled the chassis and sheet metal, prepped the frame and chassis parts for powder paint, prepped and painted all the sheet metal (satin black) under coated the floor, fenders and running boards, reassembled the chassis, reassembled the body and sheet metal back to paint stick gaps, installed the glass, completely wired the car from scratch and took the car to running driving status. In my old age I hire a lot more done and the above was stuff I either couldn't do or didn't want to do. The labor didn't count the labor I contributed by building the chassis and assembling it in bare metal or all the transportation involved. I might be wrong but in my world the above work was a bargain?
     
    olscrounger and Turbo26T like this.
  12. Never had a problem with AMPAC . HRP
     
  13. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    I agree with lurker mick, on my current project, and my other two with Grundy, they just ask for pictures and values? Don't understand why a discussion about labor?
     
  14. 600 hrs to build a car is very reasonable. Pretty damn quick actually if you look at the entire scope. Add in that little tid bit of you not including your time.

    But forget what the number represents and doesn't 600 sound like a big number?
    It sounds big enough to be able to chop it by 40% and still be substantial- 360 right.

    If the operations were itemized, and individual hours tallied into smaller groups it's harder to chip 40% off of those and not sound like a complete freaking idiot. Auto insurance companies require and also generate some of the most detailed and broken down estimates I've ever seen. There's a reason for that and it's multi-factorial. There's a reason why shops need to file supplements after supplements on the same job. There's also a reason that people who work off of these auto insurance estimates are mostly all paid flat rate off of that estimate.

    So, if you'd ask the insurance company to provide their estimate that totaled 350 hrs I'd bet that the details provided should blow your mind. The number of pages should be staggering And I'd bet you find even more details that they missed, about 40% more.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  15. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,670

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Ask Grundy where "their shop" is located so you can hire them to do the entire job at 300-350 hours and save yourself a few hundred hours labor.
    I agree on going with agreed value (with someone else).

    BTW, are talking about a finished, painted, driving car to be insured? If not, I could see why they may be lowballing your labor to pad themselves for insuring what they see as a "mountain of parts fitted together". Even if it's running and driving but still in primer, needing interior and other things finished, some insurance company's balk at insuring an "unfinished project car".
     
  16. Clay Belt
    Joined: Jun 9, 2017
    Posts: 381

    Clay Belt
    Member

    Suggest trying somewhere else.
     
  17. Weedburner 40
    Joined: Jan 26, 2006
    Posts: 954

    Weedburner 40
    Member

    Having over 45 years experience and having done all of the items you have listed as outside work, 600 hours is quick. Ask any good painter that has done many old cars and they will tell you to plan on 80 to 100 hours to prep and paint. Quality metal repairs don't happen overnight either. Your account seems rather generous to me.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  18. badvolvo
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 471

    badvolvo
    Member

    I don't know how many hours I spend on a build, but it's 2-3 years of spare time and weekends!
     
  19. Tri-Power
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 153

    Tri-Power
    Member
    from Memphis

    I'm having trouble understanding your post/Question. Is this a finished car, or are you trying to insure a project for a finished car's value, or are they questioning the finished car's value?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  20. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    It's a finished car. Finally got it ironed out. Went higher up the food chain to a senior underwriter who took one look at my list of parts, labor and pictures and approved the amount I thought it was worth. When the nice lady responded back that it was approved she kind of hinted the first underwriter was a rookie. Thanks to all who replied.
     
    Texas Webb and olscrounger like this.
  21. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    If I recall correct just the pipes on the Bishop-Tardell Roadster took more than 600hrs.
     
  22. Why do you care what they think? as a matter of fact why are you telling them how long it took to build? All that really matters is what it is worth, right?

    The truth of the matter is that it takes as long as it takes. I been doing this 50 years this year, more if you count the time in the Ol' Man's shop while I was becoming a big kid. I used to work flat rate and make good money at it, I still work flat rate when I am getting paid, but it take me a lot longer than it used to. End of the day it takes as long as it takes.
     
  23. JimSibley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 3,848

    JimSibley
    Member

    Porknbeaner is absolutely right. I like to consider myself fast at what I do and it still takes a very long time to do something correctly. I have kept a loose record of time on most of my builds and anything that is custom built should be measured in thousands of hours.
     
    pitman and Bandit Billy like this.
  24. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    As I stated I did not show all the hours I put in on the car just the outside labor. On my own stuff I work for nothing. I told them the time and materials as they refused to even consider insurance without this list. I also have insured 5 other collector cars with this company and never had a problem. I pay on time and never had a claim but I guess it was my turn to get a rookie underwriter?
     
  25. ...time & labor should have nothing to do with insuring a car, only what it's worth...
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  26. That's right.
    You can put 2000 hrs into micro polishing 50 cent piece. It's worth 50 cents. At one time they'd give a 1/2 million loan on a tool shed. When the $2500 shed burned down someone had to pay up $500,000
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    alchemy likes this.
  27. Things change, company policy can be reworked on the fly.
     
  28. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Less than an hour on tv.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. with 120 sets of hands going 18 hrs a day they get a car done in a week.
    It's like 8000 man hrs.

    60x18x7
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  30. okiedokie
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 4,778

    okiedokie
    Member
    from Ok

    Sounds like Gary was wanting more coverage than Grundy wanted to approve. Just goes to show the quality of his builds. Now on mine they say "are you sure you don't want more coverage?"
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.