Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects DRAG SNAKE "Vintage Terror!"

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Deuced Up!, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Chassis has a really good start going but since we are so close to having wheels I am going to wait till they arrive so we can "rolling chassis" the thing and get the stance perfect as we go.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    mad mikey, chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  2. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,144

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Hopefully lots of heavy tack welds and nothing fully welded.
     
    chryslerfan55 and Deuced Up! like this.
  3. Motor City
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 42

    Motor City
    Member
    from Michigan

    Those lenses look like what was used on reverse lamps on Triumph TR4's & TR250"s
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  4. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well we had a fairly productive day yesterday on the fabrication front. It was a long day but a good day none-the-less.
    We started about 7:30 by sitting the 9" Ford housing on a couple of saw horses and dropping the Yukon Nodular housing in place pointed to the ceiling. Then I walked over to a very nice stack of boxes full of performance parts and cut the top flaps off of one to play around with making bracket patterns on the rear end.

    The plan for the day was to come up with some way to mount what someone on here earlier referred to as inboard ladder bars on the Cobra. The issue we have as I have said before is the chassis is basically underslung by nature. So unless we want to design it like a lifted 4 wheel drive there is no room under the floor pan for ladder bars etc. So my original plan was to run a single ladder bar and tuck it into driveshaft tunnel. I have read several articles on single ladder bar systems, a couple that down right claim it is the only way to do it.

    However as said above, we started off the morning thinking about tucking two of them up inside the tunnel on either side of the drive shaft. My goal was to come up with a bracket system that would not only mount them but keep them 10" outside to outside. After several hours of trial and error, the floor was littered with hacked up cardboard and masking tape and just about every box in the shop was topless! LOL.

    Among the issues at hand, making the bracket or brackets removable seemed to be the one of the biggest hurdles. I mean if it can not be removed then the center section can not be removed etc. Most of the problems seemed to occur on the driver's side basically because of the offset and span of center section that had to be bridged to get that bar inside the 10" zone for the tunnel. When I hit the shop this morning below is what had sketched out but after actually seeing it come to life in cardboard there were issues.
    Orignal Design.jpg
    So we started experimenting on the fly with other ideas based off the above and nothing really seemed to fill the bill. In my opinion the two really need to share the same mounting platform to get the geometry correct. I mean they have to be the same height and end up 42" away the height and same length etc. At about 2 p.m. we broke for lunch with nothing to show for the day except a floor full of cut up card board.

    When we got back I started picking up and Dad went back to pontificating from the office chair in the shop. He made the obvious statement with daylight and our creativity both running short. Back to the original plan, one ladder bar. I don't know if it was exhaustion or bad Mexican food but it sounded pretty good me. Especially since in one of the earlier mock ups we had a really good one for a single bar on the passenger side (which is where I would want if it we went with a single).
    Chassis Graphic.jpg
    So above is direction we embarked upon. The outside steel plate being welded solid to the housing and inner bracket designed to bolt on to it with an area cut away to span over the center section. And we hit 5" on the dot from center of the yoke to the outside of the ladder bar.

    Chassis4.jpg
    Before we plasma cut the brackets installed above, we sat the chassis on the floor 7.5" up which is about where we are headed. We adjusted the housing for a good pinion angle and aimed the ladder bar to end up front centered up and down in the height of the frame rails. Then we made the appropriate changes to our card board template and went to work with the plasma cutter and grinder.

    chassis2.jpg
    After we had the brackets cut and cleaned up we double checked several things. One, did they clear the center section as planned. Two, where the angles correct for the ladder bar etc. After having it apart and marked at least 5 times, double and triple checked, I finally removed the center section and tacked the outer bracket in place. Just to be 100% sure we assembled the inner plate and the ladder bar and sat it all back in place to check the pinion angle and the front mount point for the ladder bar and we were dead on. So I welded the holy hell out of it.

    Chasis1.jpg
    By 6 p.m. we had it all back in place and could finally set back and enjoy our handiwork. We laid out the quarter elliptic springs and they appear like they are going to work perfect. And our little upper and lower bolt holes on the inner bracket will be the starting point out back for the Watt's Link mount etc.

    Chassis3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  5. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,610

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    It would be close to the frame rail, but is there room to do the same on the drivers side?
     
    Doctorterry and loudbang like this.
  6. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You know while Dad was pontificating (lol) Saturday he had a pretty good idea. After the wheels get here and we get the mocked up suspension (front and rear) installed. We could actually just stack the part boxes on the chassis to double check our sprung weight and ride height etc. Since everything is still in boxes starting with two big ones with the Engine and Trans in them. We can just set those two on the frame rails and then stack what ever else (of consequential weight) on top of them still in their boxes as well. That is going to be a pretty funny photo! But a pretty good idea!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  7. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well I had a pleasant surprise when I got to work this morning. I was out most of the day Friday onsite with a customer and apparently the Cobra Elves delivered a few more packages. The ProMaster alternator is here as are the QA1 Adjustable rear shocks. And this handy dandy (some assembly required!) brass expansion tank. What a pain in the backside. So I guess since it came with absolutely no instructions that we have to assemble the car first, then install in the tank, figure out and mark it for the direction the hose needs to go and then find an old school radiator shop to have it all brazed together. (well at least they pre-cut or punched the holes in it!)...

    Resized_20180212_090446.jpeg
     
    mad mikey, loudbang and enloe like this.
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    I think they'll solder it, not braze it. And yeah, I would get someone with some radiator experience to assemble it, too. Even though I've been soldering stuff for a long time.
     
  9. Nostrebor
    Joined: Jun 25, 2014
    Posts: 1,278

    Nostrebor
    Member

    Did it come in a Revell box?:)
     
    loudbang and Deuced Up! like this.
  10. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    Have the rad shop use Silver solder on that tank. They will cry about how much harder it is to do, but it will be better in the long run. Much less prone to crack from the vibrations and thermal cycles.

    I hope you are writing down all this free advice we are all giving you. It will be hard to remember where in 600+ post something was mentioned.
     
    loudbang and Deuced Up! like this.
  11. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Resized_20180212_102752.jpeg
     
  12. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks Jim. Actually had no idea the difference which shows how much I know. I have soldered my share of copper fittings (plumbing style). I guess I just assumed in the world of radiator repair it was brazing. So for the rest of you that might not know either....

    "The basic difference between soldering and brazing is the temperature necessary to melt the filler metal. That temperature is defined to be 842ºF/450ºC by the American Welding Society (AWS) but is often rounded to 840ºF. If the filler metal melts below 840ºF the process being performed is soldering."

    Well there you have it. Either would probably work better than black RTV which is about all I could throw at it. LOL!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Hotdoggin DaddyO, loudbang and Sancho like this.
  13. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    Those front marker lights are exactly like the original ones on my 58 Morris Minor. Mine say Lucas made in England on the glass lens.
     
    Deuced Up! likes this.
  14. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    kiwijeff, mad mikey, Sancho and 6 others like this.
  15. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So I know the color for the Cobra: Viking Blue. That is what the original Team Cobra cars were painted. However there seems to be some consistency issues in the Ford Viking Blue color from paint chip to paint chip etc. ....surprise, surprise! We have several good paint shops here is Springfield (and when I say paint shop I mean auto paint suppliers etc.). I have been to a few and even had some test samples mixed up but I am not happy yet. Then last week the guy behind the counter said I should just go find a car the color I want and ask the owner if they know the paint code etc.

    Not a bad idea. So that is just what I did..... Here it is....
    137665_Front_3-4_Web.jpg
    AND here is how I found the code. I reversed searched this photo on Google and found several hits for it one of them Barrett Jackson. I took that hit and chose to go to the original publication. That was indeed a Barrett Jackson Auction from 2013. Under the listing for this car it was listed as CSX 6166 and the color was Viking Blue. I continued reading through the cars bio to see if there was any indication of who sold it. All it said was, "A CSX 6000 generation Cobra offered by the Largest Authorized Shelby Cobra Dealership in the World.

    So I Googled: "What is the Largest Authorized Shelby Cobra Dealership in the World?"

    header_home_button.jpg Was Google's ANSWER. So I went to their site.

    They show to be from Windsor California and sure enough, right across the top of their web page it said:
    "Largest Authorized Shelby Cobra Dealership in the World!"

    So I called them up and said I had a question about the CSX 6166 that you guys sold through Barrett Jackson at Scottsdale in 2013, I believe it was lot number 1301 if that helps. He pulled the file and I told him what I was building and what I would love to know was the paint maker and code etc. He said the only problem was they didn't paint it, it came to them complete. However he said he knew exactly who painted it and he would give them a call for me and get the information!

    See that was easy right? Just find a car painted the color you like and ask the owner for the paint code! LOL
     
    slv63, kiwijeff, mad mikey and 3 others like this.
  16. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    Sometime painters don't give away their secrets. Hopefully this one does.
     
    loudbang and Deuced Up! like this.
  17. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Actually it did get a little weird and I thought the chase was over when the guy from Denbeste called to say it came in to their shop as a roller for Superformance. I called them just to see if they would share although I sort of figured they would say it was proprietary etc. The gal that answered the phone was really nice and said she would check on it for me. In the meantime, for the heck of it, I Googled Superformance Paint Codes. I found several folks on Cobra forum sites asking the same question. On one of threads a member responded call Hillbank, they have all the codes.

    Now I have no idea who that is so I google Hillbank and for grins added a "Motorsports" to it and sure enough there is one in Irvine and they had a Cobra on the front page of their website. I called and got a really nice guy who said no problem I have that and poof the search is over.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    mad mikey, loudbang and Sancho like this.
  18. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,407

    oldolds
    Member

    Lighting and photo enhancements were probably used to take that picture. I doubt the color will meet your expectations.
     
    Deuced Up! likes this.
  19. raven
    Joined: Aug 19, 2002
    Posts: 4,698

    raven
    Member

    From the pictures, it looks like the rear end is looking toward your ceiling.
    r
     
    loudbang and Deuced Up! like this.
  20. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No it is fairly straight with the world. A couple of those photos have "fisheyed" a bit. To get the look or stance of the original DragonSnakes our chassis is going to be at a bit of an angle down from front to rear...about 2 or 3 degrees. That will likely put the engine and trans close to 5 degrees for good measure. Of course we can control the pinon angle (which is what I assume your are thinking about) with the front ladder bar mount but we will be aiming for about 2 degrees down at rest and that is pretty close to where it is now with no adjustment.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  21. elroy
    Joined: Dec 17, 2007
    Posts: 76

    elroy
    Member

    Superformance and fiberglass "continuation " cars are painted before they leave South Africa. The originals were painted in the UK. There was a discussion on one the Shelby forums about them not matching. The current alloy body cars are being finished in Utah at kirkham,they might be your best chance of getting a valid formula.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  22. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,610

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Over the years paint company's may have consolidated Viking Blue with similar colors.
    The color from the paint codes change quite a bit from brand to brand, a good paint supplier will spray a paint card for you first. When trying to match a color, the better brands use more tints, and you may never get a match with out experimentation. My supplier told me the better brand used 14 tints and the economy brand 7 tints.
    When researching paint for my 64 found out that over the years that paint company s codes for GM 1964 Riverside Red have been consolidated to same code as Roman Red. Took the two paint cards home and compared them to the original car paint. The economy card looked almost orange and lip stick Red with the better paint.
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  23. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member

    Re the pinion angle. Please put the pinion at the same angle as the engine/transmission. The only time that the pinion should be down (unless the engine is the same way) is with a leaf spring car that does not have any other form of axle housing locator. In that case when the springs wind up the pinion ends up at the correct angle. With your ladder bar, if your car squats at the hit it will only make the disparity in the u-joint angles worse. If it separates there will not be enough shock travel to get the pinion to the complimentary angle to the motor/trans which will probably be around 2-3 down at that point (as the back of the car comes up). If your engine/trans package is 5 degrees down towards the rear the pinion should by up close to that same amount.

    Roo
     
  24. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Happy Valentines Day to me! LOL. UPS says the wheels are in town and on the truck for delivery! I can't remember when I have been this excited. In anticipation of it, the tires are in the back of my truck ready to be installed! It is going to be a really nice day!

    Resized_20180214_074902.jpeg
     
  25. map
    Joined: Jun 18, 2007
    Posts: 132

    map
    Member

    Deuced Up! and loudbang like this.
  26. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Understood. I think that came out wrong. I did not mean 2 degrees down from 90 or straight up and down square with ground etc. I meant we will be a couple of degrees down if that from the Engine and Trans angle. There is a lot more math involved than I care to elaborate on but even 2 degrees down is not two degree as far as direction of the pinion. It is the difference in the drive shaft angle versus pinion etc. etc. But you know all that....
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and enloe like this.
  27. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  28. Deuced Up!
    Joined: Feb 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,206

    Deuced Up!
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well that didn't take long! The rims went straight from the UPS Truck to my truck and to the tire shop down the street. ...and Poof!!!
    Resized_20180214_111212.jpeg

    Resized_20180214_111229.jpeg

    Resized_20180214_111241.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  29. enloe
    Joined: May 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,534

    enloe
    Member
    from east , tn.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.