Let's Talk Cyclecars

Jean Pascal's Amilcar at Retromobile.

 

Here’s another picture. Interconnectivity of the front and rear suspension is a myth. I’ve taken many, many 2CVs apart and the front and rear spring assemblies don’t contact each other at any point in their travel.

It looks as if the suspension arms have had the hub end cut and turned to reduce the castor angle - otherwise when they are this low the steering is very heavy

 

I would like to build myself a little cycle car to run around in. That 2CV engine would be about perfect because it has a bellhousing and converting it for my application would be pretty easy. But I have yet to see any 2CV engines for sale here in the US. Anyone know of a similar alternative? Maybe an industrial engine? I've looked at H-D engines and the like but a twin cylinder with a bellhousing and flywheel that would accept a plate clutch would make life much easier. Perhaps a H-D engine could be converted?

 

Any shaft drive R series BMW flat twin would work


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Why on earth didn't I think of that myself? It's already setup the way I want. Mounted longitudinal.

 

Can be used with the gearbox and clutch. If you build a trike use the rear swing arm, if not take it to a light rear axle. Over here we would use a Reliant Robin rear axle. I guess you would use something from a little Suzuki 4x4 or similar


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My JZR uses a Honda CX650 engine and 5-speed sequential Honda transmission. It is a water cooled V-twin with about 65 horsepower.

 

Here is a head on photo.

 

I really like a BSA FW32 so I would follow those lines but it would have to rear wheel drive. Suzuki rear is a good option. They are very popular for off roading here so should have a good variety of ratios available. Aiming towards air cooling if for no other reason than simplicity but the Honda engine is definitely worth considering. Beautiful trike, btw.

 

You've said that before, and I've corrected you before. The tube which contains the springs acts as a tensile member between the springs. The two springs and tube on each side together act as a tension spring. You'll note that the tube isn't mounted rigidly to the frame but is held between two volute springs which allow the tube to move fore and aft perhaps 50mm overall. Due to the motion ratio of what? 4:1 this translates into considerable travel at the wheel.

Why else mount the springs in this elaborate way, in an otherwise outrageously simple car? Gratuitous Frenchness?

Here's a test. Put an unmolested 2CV with one wheel on a ramp, and compare the longitudinal position of the tubes right to left.

 

Regarding adapting motorcycle engines to rear wheel drive here are a some shots of a project that I did for a customer several years ago. We used a new H-D 88" Twin Cam B and an adapter that was originally intended to put a V-twin motor on a VW style trike. I used a Toyota five speed transmission (and the rear end) from a small pick up by making a hub to put the Toyota clutch on the H-D crank. I guess that is a cycle car in a funky sort of way.
Here is the start of the flywheel adapter. I used an outboard bearing to give it a bit more support once it was fitted to the crank.

This one shows the adapter which was a pretty rough casting before I cleaned it up in the lathe

Here is the other side of the engine/transmission installation. The angle aluminum bracket was to mount a tray where all of the electrical components were mounted. In the photo above you can see the tray and the notches in the mid plate for the engine wiring harness

The rear suspension had a triangulated four link and the shocks were operated by this rising rate linkage which made the car ride nicely over small bumps but not bottom out on big ones.

This photo gives a better picture of how the rear end is located.

With the transmission so far forward relative to the driver I had to make a remote shift linkage and you can see some of that here along with a view of the cockpit layout


And this is what the car looked like when it was done. It was totally street legal in Indiana as photos were submitted to the BMV and they signed off on it.


Roo

 

Morgan has had a terrible time trying to control the pulses of the SS engine. The Compensator is falling apart now. without it the Mazda gearbox was tearing up.

Another choice for a cyclecar is to use a Honda Goldwing flat 4 or 6 drive. the later ones have a reverse too.

 

Nice work!

 

1926 from Isabelle.

 

I think you are looking at a 50’s 2CV. I have a 1982 and 1990 in my workshop right now and the spring cans are rigidly mounted. See the pictures below. The cans sit between the two mounts and are secured using large nuts with a fine thread. They are tightened to a huge torque. I use a scaffolding pole as a breaker bar. They are then absolutely rigid.

There is a kit you can buy that allows you to delete the cans and run with open springs.


j



Check the parts list called undercar suspension at www.2cvcity.co.uk and you will see how it goes together in a newer Deux Chevaux





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Sandfords in the middle ( - and i don't recall seeing a closed body before) what are the others? First a bit chummy/dixie, but ...

 

As me old Dad was wont to say;
'One Man's Meat Is Another Man's Poison/
My Favourite Car Is An Avions-Voison.'
and thanks yet again, Bob

 

I Love Gratuitous Frenchness

 

You might also consider a Moto Guzzi power plant or even a Honda V65 if you wanted a high reving screamer (121HP!), although it is water cooled. Both offer 1000cc + displacement in a driveshaft configuration. And Spridget (sprite midget) rear ends are pretty narrow and very light for being steel.

 

The research I've been able to do suggests that the only 2CV derivative which dispensed with interconnection entirely was the Ami 8 - I'm not sure if all or only some. The metal volute springs of very early 2CVs were at some stage replaced by rubber springs much on the Mini principle, relying as in the Mini's case on a fairly severe motion ratio for their practical elasticity. Of these there appear to be different early and late types.

It's clear to me from the below pic that the externally-threaded sleeves which are affixed to the frame mountings by heavily-torqued 46mm nuts and which locate the spring cans vertically/laterally do not constrain the cans longitudinally. The cans' end caps can slide on the smooth ends of the sleeves:


Otherwise, what is the rubber doughnut doing?

Now, I can understand that a spring intended to provide soft pitch stiffness as only one part of a serial-spring system when subject to quite a hairy motion ratio will feel pretty much solid to one's arm muscles when sitting on a bare chassis. But I repeat: subject a 2CV to warp deflection (e.g. one wheel on a ramp) and check for can displacement.

By the way, what sort of dampers do later 2CVs run? At that angle I'd expect monotubes, in which case there is a way to make them work a lot better.

 

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Hello, Eric!​

Excellent sketch of beautiful voiturette from the last decade of the XIX century!
Should be nice to build one as a replica? A problem could be to find so big and light wire-spoked wheels...
At the rear, or under a seat, there is a lot of space for a gasoline engine, and transmission, or electric-motor and batteries? Electric power is more legally and socially acceptable here in Europe. According to European Union Directives, so-called "light quadricycles" could have:

1. gasoline engine up to 50 ccs (not enough), or
2. diesel engine up to 4 KW (good power and torque, with a lot of weight and vibration), or
3. electric-power up to 4 Killowats (good, but batteries are heavy, expensive, controllers too)...

I was thinking about hybrid power as was mentioned later in posting with photos of a few wonderful classic chassis. Only, I am not sure if Swiss officials should accept such power as electric power?

However, if it is diesel aggregate up to 4 kilowatt - maybe that could be a solution?

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

ZORAN MY FRIEND

IT'S ALL IN EU-METRIC AND IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND AS AN AMERICAN THAT HAS SPENT MY LIFE BUILD WHAT I WANTED WITH WHATEVER I WANTED.

I BELIEVE THESE KIND OF RULES EXIST IN THE WORLD AND ALMOST FEEL LIKE I LIVED IN A ''LAW-LESS'' LAND ALL MY LIFE. I CAN ONLY WONDER HOW THE EARLIEST OF AIRCRAFT, CYCLE CAR, MOTORCYCLE, AND PERHAPS, DUE TO THE EXHAUST RESTRICTIONS, HORSE DRAWN WAGON INVENTORS WOULD HAVE FAIRED TODAY.....

JUST MY 'DWA GROSZE'

 

Wouldn't a utility van differential work? Like a Suzuki or Daihatsu mini van? Should be light enough.

 

Hi Motoklas
The spindles that I have with the axle are nearly 200 mm long and I think we're meant foe wooden spoke wheel with a big hub. Those are still being made here in USA by the Amish craftsmen and are very reasonably priced.

I also have access to some very talented electronics engineers in the electric vehicle field so that would be the easiest path for me. Controllers were very simple stepped style designs or I could cheat a bit and use a modern forklift controller and hide it in a wooden box.


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YOUTUBE SOMETIMES RECOMMENDS ODD VIDEOS BUT I THOUGHT THIS MIGHT INSPIRE YOU TOWARD ELECTRIC POWERED CYCLECAR

 

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Hello, Eric!​

There are always solutions for a resolving of issues connected with designing and building a replica of veteran voiturette, or cyclecar, or whatever we want it to look, including all variants of velomobiles in a style of Mochet Velocar... Such velocar could be my variant after I reconstructed my present pedal-powered quadricycle, as we are not quite satisfied with its look - performances still wasn't tested...

My internet friend from the USA made the replica of Holsman high-wheeler, using the Amish-built wheels, maybe springs too.


On the photo is his replica and one original Holsman - guess what is his.
Good thing is that here in Swiss, replicas could be attested and registered as classic vehicles and used at road and streets.

As we do not have Amish people and transport be too high - I was searching a little and found wheels for sport-type horse-drawn karts! They are made of steel, imitating wood spokes, and could have hydraulic disk brakes! Even comple kart could eb bought for under 1000 Euros! (see atatched PDF)

A lot of thoughts for the pensioner as I am, but not enough possibilities...

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

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HELLO, BLUTO!​

THANK YOU ON EXCELLENT VIDEO AS PRACTICAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR BUILDING "ELECTRIFIED" LIGHT TRICYCLE! PRINCIPLES AND TECHNIQUE COULD BE USED FOR ANY VARIANT OF LIGHT KART!

PROBLEM: I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ELECTRONIC, SO I COULDN'T BE SURE IN SUCH RECONSTRUCTION... IT WOULD BE EASIER WAY TO BUY ALL COMPONENTS FROM ONE MANUFACTURER, BUT OF COURSE MORE EXPENSIVE.

ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THAT MY WIFE WANT THAT VEHICLE SHOULD BE TWO-SEATER, SO WITH STRONGER AND HEAVIER CONSTRUCTION, WITH MORE POWERFUL MOTOR(S) AND MORE BATTERIES...

FROM EXPERIENCE GOT FROM SOME CONSTRUCTORS OF SUCH VEHICLES, LOW LIMIT SHOULD BE TWO ELECTRIC MOTORS OF 1000 WATTS, FOR SPEEDS UP TO 30 KM/HOUR ~ 18.6 MPH... GOOD FOR US, THE SAME AS LIMIT OF 50 KM ~ 31 MILES DRIVING AROUND...

CIAO,
ZORAN​

P.S.: KAPITAL, BIG AND BOLD LETTERS FOR BLUTO!

 

THANK YOU FOR THE LARGE FONT.....

WE HAVE CARRIAGE MAKERS HERE, ZORAN.

THIS IS THE CENTER FOR SUCH THINGS AS WELL AS HARD RUBBER TIRES TOO.