Technical ***December 2017 Banger Meet - Little Saint Nick Banger Powered?***

1931 ford coupe , 4" drop axle , wish bones , new kingpin bushings & king pins , new spindles , vega cross steer .
toe in is near 1/16 . having a bump steer problem . any ideas appreciated ............

 

Steve,
Is there a panhard bar on the front end?
John

 

John
What castor should he have?

 

no . not sure how to hook one up . got one on rear (coil overs) . I'm going out to recheck toe in ......... thanks john

 

typically the caster would be about 7°
the problem with a cross steer setup is that the axle can move sideways in the spring shackles.
A panhard bar is typically attached to the frame near the steering box and the other end attached to the radius rod or batwing on the steering input side. this limits the amount of bump influence in the axle position in regards to the steering box.
sorry for bad pic, showing mounts for panhard bar on passenger bat wing
j

 

Wow ! Maybe I got lost here, but are we still talking of the dual OH cam with Riley carbs , or records with other equipment ?
You stated....stuff still out there, just have to stay in the hunt and be dedicated. You are so right, in my experience.
Example: Yesterday, I drove a good part of the day ...in the hunt. The OLD timer rode with Don Garlits, and as a friend, raced with him.
Well, it (all the work) paid off even better than expected !! Keep the faith, I say. Problem seems (for me) not to be finding , but having the $ to pay the...like gold prices.

 

thanks john . ill try it after new years .................. steve

 

Here is how I set up my panhard bar. The first shot the frame is upside down and the second shot you can see how I attached it to the split wishbone. I made it out of a rear panhard bar from a 68 chevy truck. The mouts I made from 3/16" Plate. Hope this helps. There are several threads on setting them up. I used the search function and found lots of information. Since I didnt use Heim joints I also made sure it moved in the same plane as the axle so it wouldnt bind when you hit a bump. the Rubber bushings in the end of the bar helps too.

 

thank you for the pix

 

Hi everyone. Been into bangers off and on for awhile and silently fallowing the banger threads. I recently took my roadster apart for paint and decided to do a once through mechanicaly. It ran great just giving it a good bill of health during the down time.
What do you guys shim your cranks to? I went through the bottom end of the B and ended up with this. Does this sound right? I’ve heard you need .001 but my mains don’t have any shims currently, I was told to use a flat surface to sand the caps down like a belt sander to get proper clearance and shim higher if I go too far. The top is the oil clearance and bottom is the final torque to a crown for a cotter pin on each nut. Mains we’re torqued to 90 ftlbs and Rods 40 ftlbs when checked. Rod #4 I pulled some shims but got tight trying to rotate the moter so I put one back in and ended up with the .0035. Is this runable as is for a realiable moter or the .004 or so needs to be addressed? What is everyone’s thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

BANGER : would you still need a panhard bar if you removed one of the front shackles(made a 'dead-end' out of it)like we used to do in cross-spring dirt-track cars? I'd think the axle would no longer be 'free-floating' & in need of side to side 'control'?

 

The front springs on Mrs' race car have a couple problems one bolt is touching the spring at full bump... the spring goes infinite stiff and weight is transferred to the opposite rear corner. I suspect there is so much going on , when driven in anger, that it is goes unnoticed but has to make it a little hard to correct. Since we plan to turn this left and right I have to sort this out.

Steve....


There are a lot of events that make it feel like a three legged chicken

Simple slip plates are easy to make but don't forget the grease between them. Floor tile works

Are you sure it's bump steer? On maybe something else going on? Look the front and rear over closely for any missing paint that would indicate a 'touch spot' limiting travel
Generally if I guess this a piece of tape on the suspect contact will tell you in a spirited test drive.
I have made plates to attach to outside of each wheel to show what changes the tires go thru. Then have a couple large friends jump on the front to see if it's really steering. In the case of the CanAm cars we had a special set of narrow sharp wheels to see these problems easily.
Please don't forget the REAR can steer too.
Look for extra grease being squeezed out in any places too. Indicating worn parts too.

Some of the crap I have worked on requires a bunch of bouncing and looking to get full travel.

 

jimski / drtrcrv8 , thanks . I will be checking it out after Christmas . I appreciate your in put !!

drtrcrv8 , we live about 35 miles apart !

 

trad27 , most rods & cranks are set-up 001.5 - 002.0 ... rear main is best at .001 ... reason is less space to leak .

at .0035 it wont live long & should knock . way to loose .
the idea of sanding the caps down will help , but do not egg shape them .

 

I have read about the "Dead Perch" set up and from what I gathered it will work just fine. I can't remember the Cons of running one either.

 

ya know , when it comes to info this forum is great ! thank you all

MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR

 

Hey Guys ,

Quick question what compression readings should I be seeing with a Stock Model B four banger, I currently have 50-55 psi across all four which seems low ?

 

As far as the "dead-end" axle/spring : I seem to remember that we used to take out the left shackle so the chassis turning left would "pull" on the axle instead of the shackle, & would also help keep the drag link/steering box/spindle alignment under control(or so we thought at the time, but looking back, it probably wouldn't make a lot of difference.)

 

50-55 is about stock compression

 

Thanks, I’m tying to pin down why I can’t get it running , it has fuel and a spark at what I think is the right time and yet still won’t even splutter .

 

the stock distributer is not ez to get it right . I would recheck timing & points . be sure the cap is wired correctly .
* 1-2-4-3

 

Cap is wired correctly , have 15 thou on the points , I’m in the dimple with timing pointer as the points are just about to open on cylinder 1 compression stroke with all the backlash removed (by turning the rotor clockwise when setting the timing ) .

Have a decent spark when turning the motor over with a plug pulled . At a total loss as to why I can’t even get it to splutter !

 

Hope Santa answers your letters - that is if you've been good this year ! All the best the rest of the year y'all !

 

There are various check lists on line for stock setups. Here are a few

http://modelabasics.com/Roadside Troubleshooting.htm#failsToStart

https://www.model-a.org/troubleshooting_chart.html

http://www.grantmaclaren.com/terrystips/

If you have spark, fuel and compression/timing then think mechanical. Major air leak at manifold? Had one fail to run as the d/d manifold had been drilled underneath for a vacuum line that I'd forgotten to plug.

Checked the tappet clearances?

 

While I'm here, does anybody know how much hp it takes to run the water pump?

Happy Xmas to all

Cheers

Juggs

 

One of the few numbers, my brain has latched on to during my 3,5 years of studying to become a bachelor in mechanical engineering, is the basis caster angle at 6° - less than that will most likely result in problems with the cars self alligning ability. Dunno why, but if asked at 4 AM, you'd get that response promptly! A (my) mind has a will of its own...

Happy new years, everybody.
I'll hopefully get some banger-work done during my Christmas holiday, plans are to put B/G28T and B-gears in the frame of the racecar-to-be, and start on the build of a body.

 

Had a very similar situation and only after pulling the distributor cap and noting that the engine was turning but the distributor wasn't, found a shredded timing gear.

 

I also just had a similar thing. I never found the problem. Changed the whole dizzy and it now runs fine. Scary cause the next time it happens I may not be in my driveway! Rebuild the old dizzy, switched them, and it now runs fine. Which one do I leave in? The ghost of Henry Ford!!!!!!!!!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

I've had issues with weak spark in my stock '30 sedan. Won't start, but has spark. All I do is put in a new condenser and away it goes. The stock distributors are notorious for burning up condensers.

.

 

Impressive it managed to shred a timeing gear did you figure out how it managed to ? Thankfully mine is still turning although the rotor does have huge amount of backlash (45 degrees plus)

Scary , you’d think with how simple a design they are it would be simple to pin point exactly where the issue is .

I spent some more time today tinkering including trying a new coil and it now coughs consitentaly out of the carb when I turn the key back to off which I can’t fully get my head around . Apart from that no joy . Just how much margin of error is there in the timing ?

Will try a different condenser as I have a spare model A one . Not sure I can easily try a new dizzy as I can only find model A versions in the uk


Oh and Merry Christmas to all!!!