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Technical Breathing life into a 283 - FED Destined

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 402BOSSMAN, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,357

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

  2. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    It fits-- good
    Still the issue at hand is Although you are building this for yourself and have the ability to do so for whatever reason, If it does not correct an issue or make more power, how would one justify the added cost to the customer?
     
  3. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    I think Nick knows what he is doing, and since he's building this engine for his own use and utilizing machinery and skills that are his, if he wants to put straps on all 5 mains, that's his business, and I, and I suspect others here, are interested in seeing how he does it:):cool:
     
  4. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Never said it was good or bad, just wanted to know his reasons for doing it as I (and all the iron motors I have done) have never seen anyone/builder doing it even with blown nitro 100_1012.JPG 100_1056.JPG
     
  5. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    I'm from the overkill school , seems like the midwest (farm) part of the country does that to a person. If 1/4 inch holds just fine then 3/4 inch e'll NEVER break...lol
     
  6. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 3,043

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow, great to see somebody put that much effort into a 283! You really own an amazing set of skills!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  7. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,031

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    The rear main will begin to crack and will break in the radius where the boss for the oil pump and the flat for the main bolt meet at around 500 HP in a roundy round engine. An unstrapped stock cap on the other locations can and will also.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  8. porkshop
    Joined: Jan 22, 2004
    Posts: 1,738

    porkshop
    Member
    from Clovis Ca

    All the SBC engines we used in Southwest tour racing had straps front and rear....
     
  9. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,031

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    Many guys historically just don't know how close to the edge they are standing when putting a combination together and don't realize it until after an engine failure occurs. One often overlooked aspect is they prematurely shout success when only a few dyno pulls or drag strip passes are made and nothing goes boom, or the engine only is run in the garage and/or never under full power or load but once a year. Unfortunately, this gives them a false sense of accomplishment and only heightens the possibility of injury to bystanders when things go wrong. Stock components like rods and pistons can sometimes luckily last a few days even with insane boost or nitrous, until they don't. There are plenty of vintage racing pics of guys running over their crankshafts because of high doses of nitro or boost or just improper component selection for the application that otherwise wouldn't affect the engine if they hadn't. There is always a breaking point even when the best parts are used. Billet caps and straps aren't overkill for blown or high output engines, its common sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  10. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I'll spend money just for the "peace of mind"!
    Go little 283 go!
     
  11. Gavin Tittle
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 272

    Gavin Tittle
    Member

    Man, I've been waiting for something like this for a while, pretty rare that a build thread comes up for anything that will burn green, let alone a rail. Honestly the info on vintage drag racing (specifically the nitro burners) is 90% of why I joined, and this thread is amazing. count me along for the trip!
    Viva La CH3NO2!!!
     
    henryj1951 and loudbang like this.
  12. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,031

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    Same as the difference between the large journal crank vs. small journal. Less bearing speed at high RPM's. Since the journal is also narrower, so is the rod, and the rods end up being lighter also compared to even the small journal rod of the same length, typically.
     
  13. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Hey , however you float your boat, Ran dirt 360 sprints never a problem and blown alcohol (way over 500hp) and never saw issues with cracking, must be a back east thing. Personally would be trimming weight off the block to let the HP accelerate the lighter block then to push an extra 30#
     
  14. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    .... Was going to say something but didn't want to contribute to any controversy. My last 283 came in at 650 horses, never ticked it beyond 9400 rpm out of the glue box.
    .
    .
    Ah 1972/73 13.6to1 gas ported 46 years ago
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    tartar_sammich likes this.
  15. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

  16. I don't understand how 30 lbs could make such a huge difference that it would be worth throwing away peace of mind.
     
  17. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Peace of mind from what happening??? 30# is less grunt and strain on parts to get things moving forward from a dead stop. If you can accelerate the mass quicker, the big improvment is the short time where the gains are larger then carry those the rest of the way.
     
  18. What are you seeing that he has added that increases the block's weight by 30 lbs?
     
    dave lewis likes this.
  19. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Something tells me Nick isn't done yet so lets see what's next. I know I want to see.
     
  20. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,522

    Roothawg
    Member

    Please don't turn this into a pissing match. It's a good thread.
     
  21. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 427

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Bruce, I will say I've seen many SBC caps crack and break in dirt track applications as little as 450hp. Granted I will solely be drag racing this engine it is sort of a bandaid due to the parent cap material. Also the torque loads placed on the engines are completely different based on application. The real fix is to do billet front and rear caps but I don't want to spend the extra $500. Two straps cost me $75. On a Hemi for example the material from what I've seen is better (maybe the mix of metals) and maybe the thickness or design. So are the straps needed? Maybe, but like I said a $75 expense to myself is worth the extra time for something better than stock just for a piece of mind. This engine is for myself so my labor is free. Hope this explains my point of view.
     
    j-jock, mgtstumpy, catdad49 and 7 others like this.
  22. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,357

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    Whether the front/rear billet straps are needed or not, you've just educated anyone looking at this thread how to get it done. That pay-it-forward knowledge offsets the cost of the caps right there. What may be a legitimate question from one can come across as nay-saying to others, which can deter people like you from sharing your knowledge with hacks like me and other members on this forum. It is too easily forgotten that we on this board are on the same team, and our team is very small. Instead of treating the HAMB like an open-source community sharing lifetimes worth of knowledge and passion, threads like this easily turn into.... mush. There are many of us learning a lot from your posts, whether we comment or not. Thank you for sharing.

    It is above my experience / knowledge to determine if the front/rear straps are needed, but to me it seems like a good idea. You got the inboard caps beefed up, so the next weakest link would be the outer caps, followed by the block itself flexing and cracking, right? Whatever the case, excellent documentation of excellent machine work. Thanks again!
     
    j-jock, catdad49, Finn Jensen and 6 others like this.
  23. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    Dang i wish i knew about this build sooner i'da dropped off a couple 283's HAY while its ALL set up its easy to make a run of 2 or 3 more at the same time...lol
    .
    Excellent work there Nick
     
  24. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 1,075

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nick, Great work keep it coming man...
     
    loudbang likes this.
  25. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 427

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Another expensive day trying to get setup. Picked up a couple Sunnen GR-2241 dial bore gauges - Ebay Score! Need to order a few missing pieces for them but they are in excellent shape and near new. I had to buy the calibration fixture as well, its on the way. I ordered myself a new steel workbench to make a station for this process. This is a rather expensive investment overall but it will be nice to have added capabilities. IMG_20171206_204416_296.jpg
     
    j-jock, Cooter, mgtstumpy and 3 others like this.
  26. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Nice!!!
     
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  27. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Thank you , If you have had past issues in those areas, then the addition of the straps is warrented
     
    loudbang likes this.
  28. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,476

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Maybe you did not understand my post, If you trim/shave the block of un-nessary weight from the stock casting, it frees up HP to accelerate the car because its lighter and doing that only cost you labor.
    Why did they name it NITRO--- Because HUMBLING was already in use
     
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  29. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 427

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Nice used Sunnen calibration fixture showed up today. This is used to zero the gauge to a desired size. These are more expensive than the gauge itself and this one is in excellent shape especially for the price I bought it for.
    20171209_172547.jpg
     
    j-jock, Cooter, mgtstumpy and 4 others like this.
  30. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 427

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Ordered a new steel table, beefed it up for all of the added weight. Seems to work out well so far. I put it on casters so I can roll it around where and when I need it. Most of my equipment is on casters. The line bore fits nice on the shelf below.
    20171216_140830.jpg
    Figured I'd start making some chips today so I set it up to start machining the center 3 caps. Took a few larger cuts to remove the bulk of the material and kept taking smaller passes to creep up near the size I'm after. Need to line hone from here.

     
    j-jock, Cooter, mgtstumpy and 9 others like this.

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