I'm gonna end up doing my '46 Stude truck w/ a nose-high gasser stance. I'll be using either the stock front axle or one out of a early '50s Chebby truck, drilled of course. Got a 9" rear for it already that'll get some form of "posi", and will run some old style ladder bars. Standard transmission, no AC, power windows or locks, etc. 'Bout the only thing that'll throw the "look" will be the split bench seat. Now, I'm not sure what engine I'll use. I have a couple options at my disposal: #1 is a 351/400M Ford #2 is a 292 Y Block Ford The 351/400M: I have a complete 351M currently in an '82 F250. Truck's been parked for a few years. It has a C6, so I'll have to get a bellhousing off a manual tranny for it. I have a 400M as well, but its history is unknown- a rebuilder for sure. The 292 Y block: Pulled it outta my '64 F250. Ran great, has a granny gear manual behind it, so I have the bellhousing. I know the history on the motor, as the guy I got the truck from is a buddy & rebuilt it himself (he's a good mechanic). I also have a ton of Y block stuff- 2 complete motors, a few blocks, internal parts, etc. I know I can get more power out of the 351/400M in the long run. I know the Y block is a more "traditional" motor & I can wring some decent power out of it, but not big-block Ford power. So I'm curious as to what the folks here on the HAMB have to say. What would you build & why? I'm just looking for some opinions other than "drop a crate 350 in it & run some 20 inch blings"..................
That sounds like good start...you can prob get it to go faster and cheaper using the 351m...but...the Y block would add to the old look...besides its a stick. Bill
I say Y-block. Their coming back and that means that more and more people are making speed parts for them. As it is you can build one mean motor. Plus, they look really good.
Thanx for the input. I'm real fond of the Y blocks, but know they just are not capable of big HP numbers w/o some BIG $$$. Anyone else have a say?
your building a gasser to have fun, not bracket race....build the y block, plus you have spare parts!
All it takes is money! There are Y rails in the 7's these days as well as 9 & 10 sec altereds. Im building an altered with a goal of 10's. Cheap AND traditional? Nothing beats a 283/327 even tho I prefer the Y !! The M motors need a lot of help to unleash the potential. Id much rather use a 460; brute power out of the box if you get a pre smogger.
Listen to reason you are right, I got carried away I agree the y-block would be cool with offy goodies.
Gassers that are slow are gay, so i guess that ruls out the Y block if you're on any kind of budget. The SBF would make appropriate power, (I catch shit everytime I say this but i can't help it) but the SBF has got to be the WORST looking motor you could possibly use. They're great for kustoms or rods where the hood is shut and never gets opened, but for a gasser...puke. Big poncho mill? SBC? BBC? B/RB Mopar? Ford FE?
Thats whats holding me back on the Y block. I feel the same way- gassers are supposed to be scary. Would a 3-71 blower be enuff for a 292 Y?
Doubtful. I've never seen any Y block make more then 450 hp, and that was with 341 ci, lightened internals, easily 6 grand into just the motor, and with a compression ratio too high for the street. I can't help but think of Scotch's 383 SBC that made 550+ hp on pump gas. Maybe a tough FE Ford like a 390?
Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread but I just can't let this go. Y-blocks were alot more successful in perf apps than most are willing to give them credit for. Follow the link for an example. http://www.geocities.com/yblockhead/KarolMillerBonnevilleLegend.pdf
I don't know jack about Y blocks so I've got no input on the 292. But... As far as the 351M is concerned, I wouldn't bother... All it is is a destroked 400, so by using the 400 you'd be that much ahead to begin with. In all honesty they never made a powerful 351M so even if it was running I'd consider it a core anyhow since it'd need major help to make good numbers. Theres a good chance it has the crappy M heads since its an 82, I think they started using them after '76. Before that they just used the 351C 2V head, which is a nice street head on 351 CID. The post-76 heads have a god-awful exhaust port; they started routing water around the valves for unleaded, pretty much by casting a water jacket IN the port. Bigass restriction that you can't cut out, it makes the exhaust port REAL bad. Add on top of that low compression, a 4 degree retard on the cam, and all the smog garbage, and it is just a bad combination. The 400 would make a nice motor, assuming you can do something about the dismal compression, ditch the smog gear, and make sure you don't have M heads. The 400 gets a bad rap because a. it uses the big block bellhousing and an inch taller deck than a Cleveland so its not an easy swap for small blocks (same goes for the 351M) and b. because it gets lumped in with the 351M. Both the 351M and the 400 can use Cleveland induction (with spacers) and top-end parts, so you have a nice selection there. The biggest issue you'll encounter is pistons, theres NO 351M performance pistons and maybe only a couple options for 400 (try KB), same goes for rods. Personally, if it was me, I'd slap on some nice 4V heads, a nice intake (for a big ole' car somethin' like the Shelby/Blue Thunder would be the ticket, but they're pricey... Torker is always a great cheapy intake), a good solid cam (I've always put solids in C's), headers and be ready for some fun. Honestly I wouldn't even look at it as having a 351M and a 400, I'd look at it as having a 400 and an extra 400 block. As far as looks, I don't like 302s/351Ws (or SBC's either, but that's probably because I'm sick of 'em and they have the same dull looking valve covers as the SBF's), but the C doesn't look ANYTHING like them... Its pretty big for a "small block", and the heads and valve covers are enormous. I'm putting a 393C with a 2x4 tunnelram on my T-Bucket. I think the 400 would be different... Not MORE different than the Y, but just for different reasons. You'll make alot of dumbass rednecks eat their words, every dumbass redneck'll give you the "351M and 400 suck" line.
A Stude pickup deserves something more obscure than either a Ford or Chevy mill. I'd look for an old 389 Poncho, 421 maybe? Or possibly a 394 Olds or Caddy Motor. Want something more powerful? Why not a 472 Caddy or 500 Caddy? Cheap AND powerful! They're not nut and bolt traditional... but who cares! Make a double 4v carb manifold, adapt some early Cad valve covers on her... and RUN! Sam.
a buddy of mine had a 400M in a 250 and it moved perty well. And that was in a heavy truck. I think it would be good for a gasser, just remeber they have oiling issues so a high volume pump is a must. Though i want to say 292 to keep it old school, but there is no replacement for displacement... If you whant to go cadd, i have a 425 in my shop i can just about give to you...
Here's another perspective. Stude pick ups are cool. Why jack it up and run a mediocre wheezer engine? I you really want a gasser, why not trade the Stude for something that was a traditional gas type car? A '46 Stude deserves a better fate than to become a poser gasser. I think you'll live to regret following the gasser fad. It's just a current flavor, like red wheels. Don't get mad about my comments. You DID ask on a traditional rod board. Gassers are gas class drag race cars. Fake gassers are like stuffing a rolled up sock in your pants to look like you have a big dick. What are ya gonna do when someone asks ya to whup it out?
That was the best advice I've seen on here in several months. Dave Mann (602) 233-8400 weekdays http://www.roadsters.com/
I completely agree...although if you are going to go through with it, don't waste your time with either Ford motor and find something a bit more wild, but just keep in mind, if you're doing a gasser you're gonna have to gut the entire vehicle and eliminate every possible amenity...nobody likes a gasser with a stereo and roll up windows and all that other crap, gut the doors and rivet aluminum on, throw in a roll cage, gut the dash except for gauges and switches and throw in the lightest seats you can find...personally, I'd prefer to see the 'stude hot rodded out as a pure street car over anything else...
Okay- My two pennies are about to be inserted here... You've got a Stude pickup. You're obviously a Ford engine guy. The Y-block would be nostalgic, but would require investment to back up the racy look you're gunning for. Odds are it wouldn't crack into the 12s without several thousand invested in the right places by one of the very few in the country who have genuine competition experience with the Y-block. The M motor isn't much better...seriously. Again- It could be done, but it'd require serious investment and doesn't really suit the "flavor" you're after anyway. Have you ever seen a 400M that looked like it came from the '50s or '60s? Me either. But, you're a Ford engine guy and you've got some experience and/or connects for Ford goodies, right? The BEST nostalgic Ford V-8 to run in this Gasser would be an FE. 390/406/427/428 - Any one would do. They look the part because they were there. Nostalgic speed parts exist, and they work well. There's a slew of new-and-improved goodies for the FE to really make some solid reliable power (on pump gas even) so the Studie will have adequate "go" to back up the "show." There are several good aluminum heads out there for the FE now, and topping them with a dual-quad or Tri-Power setup would nail the look and make suitable sauce. There are C6 autos readily available for the FE, but if you're a real man who wants a real Gasser you'll get a Toploader (also not too rare) and bang your gears. Obviously, HD clutches and killer shifters are out there for the Toploader, and no one would argue it's strength. A 9-inch would offer bulletproof axle insurance, which (hopefully) you'll need. By keeping the drivetrain all Ford it'll be easier to get together. Want more to consider? An R3-flavored Studebaker V-8 (like a 327) would be the cat's ass, but it wouldn't be cheap. It could make real power with a modern centrifugal (think Vortech) but we're back into major dough again. You'd be my hero though...and that should be enough motivation for ya...lol!! Seriously- Consider the bigger-inch FE options, check out what's available for them (Shelby has a slew of good, new parts they developed for the Cobra crowd) and dress it up like an early '60s T-Bolt mill. PS- the 87-octane 383 I built did NOT make 550 hp. It only made 545. (It will be getting a 150-shot of squeeze though, so it should pass the 550-horse level at that point...) http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=1945664039 I suggest you read over my 383 story to get some ideas on how to make your dream FE fly on pump gas. The coatings, solid roller, and efficient combustion chamber all helped plenty. Any serious street engine can benefit greatly from these three developments in technology. ~Scotch~
There's alot of great advice & comments here- thanx. As for the current gasser fad going on, I couldn't agree more. They are quickly becoming the latest flat black/red wheels phenomenon. Problem is, I'm not into it for the fad. I'm 32 now, & when I was a kid I got the pleasure of reading my Dad's old magazines from the early-> late '60s- they really influenced my taste in hot rods. Straight axle drag cars were the norm in part of that time period, and developed into the "street freak" jacked up drivers in the late '60s & early '70s. I still have an old early '70s HOT ROD w/ a super-high '66 or so Falcon on the cover stating how not to build your car. I've always loved the SWC & similar gassers, & I really dig the old altered wheelbase cars like Tom McNeelys blue Falcon. Nothing would make me happier than cruising in something built in that tradition. I agree with Sam in the sense that maybe I need to hold off on either engine I have been considereing & keep an eye out for one thats a little more fitting for my build. After reading alot of the comments here, I've come to realize just becuz I already have an engine doesn't neccesarily mean I should use it. Whats the concensus on a Buick 455? Definately too late-model for a true gasser, but it would put out a ton of torque & decent HP numbers w/ a little work. At least then if someone wants to see if I have a big dick or just an old sock rolled up in my drawers, I can run some decent 1/4 mile times. I have a rebuilder 455 in the garage thats out of my '71 Riviera and a TH400 for it. Or should I just say to Hell with the whole gasser look & stick to my original plan- I have a Chevy LUV chassis I've stretched to the correct wheelbase already & build a more "traditional" street rod looking ride. No billet or anything- just a basic lowered hot rod pick up truck running steelies & dog dish caps. Damn I'm so confused. I can't get that comment out of my head.
Photoshop done by fellow HAMB'r "loogy": Some mock-up shots of my original plan after stretching the LUV chassis: What do y'all think?
From Byron Stack - Gasser Madness: In 1958, a gas class racer was basically a hot street coupe. No engine setback was allowed, all gassers had to have working lights, wipers, starter, generator and all other street equipment. Fans and belts were optional, but radiators were required. The car even had to be currently licensed for the street. Full exhaust systems, including mufflers, were required but could be unhooked for competition, although they had to remain on the car. Those of you old enough will remember cutouts that were used back then up into the early 60s. What all this provided for was a class for guys to run a hopped-up street machine. The cars were required to have full factory-type upholstery although two buckets could replace the standard bench seat as long as both were fully upholstered. Customs were allowed as long as the car wasnt chopped, channeled or sectioned a total of more than four inches. Four stock fenders and a rear bumper were also required. Full transmissions were also required. Quick-change rear-ends, locked differentials or ratchet-type rear-ends (high torque) are permissible with safety hubs. Four-wheel brakes were required as well. You don't need to strip your Stude like the late '60s gassers if you don't want to. Research the period your going for and stay true to your plan. Don't compromise. When you went out to the country strips in the '50's early '60's, the cars that were running in all classes were what the owner's could afford and could build or scrounge up. Not everyone was delt the same hand. What I'm saying is not everyone ran A/G ! You may haved dreamed about the top eliminator car but you went out to win against your peers. Ask for advice but build what YOU want and have FUN! I'm betting you do a great job. Make it fast if your going for a gasser. If you get called out be able to back it up. If your quick and anybody calls you a poser then know were all posers trying to get back to a period we love but is long gone never to return again. My $.02
..and Scat makes a 4.250-inch stroke FE crank - $750 new - with BBC rod bearing diameters: PN 9-FE-4250-6700-2200 / 4.250" Stroke, 6.700" Rod Length, BIG-BLOCK CHEVY / $749 That'd be an interesting combo. Top it with a tunnel ram, some good heads, a solid roller, and hold on to your nuts. ~Scotch~
I wouldn't use either one. Want something different? Drop in a 430 or 462 MEL. Now that baybe would be different and torque out the ying yang.
If it were mine, I'd make a bitchin push truck with the Y block. Then you could go ape shit on a coupe that could be a very accurate representation of a gasser that won't be worth a shit to drive on the street. Nobody could bitch when you trailer it to the shows. I'm sure there will be a thousand pics show up of pickups that were gassers, but I sure don't remember any. It used to be called "gas coupe and sedan class". It probably had a lot to do with traction. To me a pickup done gasser style looks odd.
I don't know shit about those engines, but after reading your description, it sure sounds like they do suck! I had one in an F250, all I know is it would pull a house down, but if it went over 3500 RPM, the valvetrain would make a death rattle for a week.
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