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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. This is YouTube where you can see the whole Monterey racing weekend. I had to start last in Group 2A. because I had drop out of the qualifying race. Unfortunately they concentrated on the leaders.
     
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  2. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    I am asking this question because I am confused, happens a lot. In the the newest SOSS magazine there is a very good article on the 1931 Indy race. On page 30 there is a phantom view of a rocker assembly that Fred Duesenburg designed. It shows two rollers on the rocker arm that contact the cam, one to open the valve the other to close. This would be similar to desmodromic valves, but is on the rocker instead of valve itself. Now my confusion. Say if the base circle is 1.000 the inside contact of the rollers on the cam would also be 1.000. When the opening roller hits the cam lobe wouldn't there have to be an opposing recess for the closing roller to go into? If the lift is .500 wouldn't there have to an opposing .500 recess with the same duration? Or am I not seeing something? Does anyone have any better pictures or diagrams of this setup? Thanks in advance.
     
  3. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Brave man asking that question on a Flathead site. Bob
     
  4. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Can you post a photo?
     
  5. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,707

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    And WHO made the rule that this is just "a flathead site"??? Are overhead valve/cam motors suddenly "outlawed", &, more importantly WHEN did this happen, ESPECIALLY on this site??
     
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  6. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    Sarcastic remarks are posted among friends, because most people get a kick out of them.:)(Note funny face) [​IMG]

    Bob
     
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  7. Bob may have had "A Brain Fart"! He probably thought he was on the Bangers Meet thread! LOL
     
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  8. Yeah! A lot of us don't subscribe to Yapp's SOSS. No photos, Roger Huntington in his "Design & Development of the Indy Car" tells of Fred Duesenberg developeing a cylinder head for the 260 C.I.D. Duesenberg Model A passenger car engine. The cam had special lobes that operated dual finger rockers that opened and closed the valves (like desmodromic). The standard engine could make 4000 r.p.m.. A de-stroked 240 C.I.D. engine made 4,400 r.p.m.. According to Huntington, both engines made about 140 H.P.
     
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  9. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    '37 certainly has the right to bust my balls. After all I rode him at Hershey for half a day. I will post the drawing later tonight, I need to mow grass while the sun is still shining.
     
  10. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    Ok, the battery was dead on the mower so I killed some stuff with the backhoe. Hopefully the picture will show. Thanks again for looking.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    I think I know the drawing; it's probably from a 1931 article in The Motor. If it is, then you go wrong in assuming that one roller is there to open the valve, and another to close it. In fact, the second roller is for the exhaust valve rocker, and just "shining through" in the drawing. It's drawn with a dotted line to merely show its position, while the relevant parts of the inlet rocker are in gray. The closing assist is done by a "finger" (the 1931 caption calls it a "shoe") on the underside of the rocker that looks a bit like a trigger for a gun.
     
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  12. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Well, yes, that's the same drawing. It's actually the same article, copied in a 2017 magazine??? Strange world... :rolleyes:
     
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  13. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    It looks like the rocker arm is captured by the valve. The caption mentions a finger to help close the valve. Similar to a Desmo!
     
  14. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    OK. so the roller on the right is not attached to the left one? That makes more sense. Thanks.
     
  15. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    While we're on the same page is the MILLER 16 in the top photo a sister engine to the Frank Lockhart LSR Stutz Black Hawk engine?

    Bob
     
  16. Now don't go there, Old Dawg- all of my 'Bangers are OHV from the factory, and a couple (Crosley/Homelite) are OHC!!! :D
     
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  17. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Sister engine, yes, but different. The Sampson actually had two engines side by side, geared together to drive a central shaft to the flywheel/clutch assembly, while the Lockhart engine had two blocks (actually, two times two blocks) on a common crankcase with two crankshafts and a central drive shaft (A "U16" configuration). The principle is the same, but the execution different.
     
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  18. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,694

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Apologies if this has been asked before. I looked quickly but didn't see anything.



    Anyone know anything about the roadster shown at 1:56 in this video of the 1937 Pikes Peak Hill Climb? It's a remarkable sight among all the sprint cars.
     
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  19. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,776

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Thank you! Whats with all the traffic he had to dodge?
     
  20. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,694

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    I assumed those were practice runs, maybe. I also note that when the roadster re-appears later on it's wearing a number (8) that wasn't present before.
     
  21. Track Rod
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 16

    Track Rod
    Member

    I have found where Ralph Hankinson promoted 14 different racing programs between June 5th and October 16th of 1926, mostly in the northeastern U.S. These races were sanctioned by the National Motors Contest Board whose onsite representative was Earl Newberry. Among the more prominent drivers that appeared in most of the races in this series were Billy Wynn and Bob Robinson. I haven’t been able to locate any other promoters of N.M.C.A. races except Hankinson and I have not been able to locate any races sanctioned by that body either before, or after this series of races in 1926. Can anyone tell me more about the National Motors Contest Board? Thanks for your help.
     
  22. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Ralph Hankinson broke with the IMCA at the end of the 1925 season, and had his "circus" running under the name of National Motor Contest Board for 1926 before he affiliated with the AAA in 1927. Bob Robinson was the star driver of his troupe, along with Doug Wallace and youngsters Billy Winn and Jimmy Patterson, and they all changed allegiance along with him. When I'm home, I can add a bit more flesh to the story of the NMCB. Meanwhile, here's http://forums.autosport.com/topic/148375-reading-fairgrounds-pennsylvania/#entry7640759 a bit of background about Hankinson, IMCA, AAA and the times. :)
     
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  23. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Here is the racing mask of an old friend that raced pre-war IMCA Fairground Horsetracks
    BATTLE READY! MEN!!!

    mask1 copy.jpg mask2 copy.jpg
     
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  24. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    I realize I don't have that much on the NMCB.

    Dates and meetings:
    June 5, Mount Holly/NJ
    June 12, Ormstown/Quebec
    July 3, North Adams/MA
    July 5, North Adams/MA
    August 17, Rome/NY
    August 20, Saint Johnsbury/VT
    August 28, White River Junction/VT
    September 6 pp to 7, Paxtang/PA
    September 11, Rutland/VT (?)
    September 17, Altamont/NY (??)
    September 18, Altamont/NY (??)
    Septemebr 18, Reading/PA
    October 2, Hanover/PA
    October 9, York/PA
    October 16, Greensboro/NC
    * Altamont events are questionable, more likely sanctioned by local club Dirt Track Drivers Association

    Main drivers:
    Bob Robinson
    Doug Wallace
    Fred "Swede" Yonally
    Billy Winn
    Jimmy Patterson
    Mack (Jack?) McClure
    Tony (Ben?) Galliano
    Toots Campos (Campo?)
    Jimmy Nordi (Laranzano?)
    Harry Davies
    Bob Riff

    Most of the drivers were from Kansas City/MO or thereabouts, except Robinson who was from Florida, Wallace from Tennessee and Riff from New York; some were typically listed with fake hometowns, such as Torino or Milan for Galliano, Campos and Nordi, also Minneapolis for Yonally or Indianapolis for Wallace, Los Angeles for Robinson. Cars were typical dirt track racers for the day, Dodge, Essex, Chrysler and Fronty Specials, a Duesenberg, Hisso, one or two (American) Fiats. Hippodromed? Possibly, but not necessarily. Most of the better drivers did well in AAA events 1927 and later, some like Robinson, Winn or Patterson even excelled.
     
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  25. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    RE : The Pikes Peak film. What's with the whitewall tires on the sprint vars?
     
  26. Looking for any info I can find on the following race car frame that came into the shop this week. Here is what we know so far:
    Circa 1948, built by the Bowman(r)? & Marks Tank & valve company, address unknown
    Built for or by Tommy Concannon of NYC. He raced for years in the area.
    Possible input from Zora Duntov
    We think that it was powered by a 60 V8 as there is little room for anything else. No witness marks anywhere of brakes, gas pedal, gauges etc. The owner thinks that it was test driven around the parking lot and then torn down, never used after???? The owner today has had it in storage for over 20 years. He wants it built as it may have been for a collection piece.
    100_6229.JPG
    100_6222.JPG 100_6223.JPG 100_6224.JPG 100_6225.JPG 100_6228.JPG 100_6227.JPG 100_6226.JPG
     
  27. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Look closely at the belt..... all have a date printed on the webbing.

    The lightning holes a interesting as the save almost no weight. Easier to get the dive to diet a couple days :)

    My thought is don't race after Thanksgiving Dinner!!:rolleyes:

    THANKS.jpg

     
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  28. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

  29. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    This and previous post from the book Specials by John Bolster 1949 Scan3.jpg
     
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  30. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 5,776

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    That looks pretty SPECIAL!
     

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