Hot Rods Snapperhead Coupe - Back in the Saddle - 1934 Coupe with a 92' in it

A Little History . . . My First Car - 1934 Ford Coupe
It's been a long time since I posted anything on this car - as it has been in limbo since Buddy called me to go build a car to race at Bonneville (2010). It was pushed to the side of the shop, things covered in grease (engine) - and put in mothballs. So now it is time to get back in the saddle again, and get motivated to get it on the road.

Heavy Horsepower for Inspiration: I decided to get 'restarted' on the engine first. There is nothing like having an engine "ready to go", tuned on the dyno and ready to rock to get me fricking off my ass and moving. Cause once you hear it run - you can't wait to drive it. So - that is how I've motivated myself - horsepower first.

Car: 1934 Ford 5 window coupe. (my first car in SoCal - when I was 15).
Style/Inspiration: Mid 60's Top-Fuel competition coupes - right before they switched over to funny cars. Think of the legendary blue Mooneyham 34 coupe.
Chassis: Custom frame that I built starting in about 2008 - starting with ASC rails
Engine: 1957 392 Hemi. Donovan 417 heads, 6-71 blower - setup for injection as well as carbs
Trans: Tremec TKO. Even though it is a bitch trying to setup a clutch and fit all this into this car (with an 8" setback on the engine) - I just can't imagine a hotrod without a clutch!
Rear: Big quick change - wanted to be able to easily swap gears for street, strip or other fun.

So lets get started . . .

 

I'm in...

 

Very cool. Sounds like you’re building a great car. Thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Dale, Love to see pics of it.

 

Resurrecting the Engine: I was smart enough to oil down the cylinder bores and spray the exterior of the polished block with lithium grease. It was carefully put "to rest" 8 years ago - time to dig it out. Keep in mind, this engine has never been fired - has been all apart for about 8 years (things bagged up, stored correctly, etc.).

A Little Back Tracking on the Donovan 417 Hemi: For those of you who don't know what a Donovan 417 is - I'd consider it the first purpose built top-fuel engine (designed by Ed Donovan in the later part of the 1960's - on the strip in the early 70's). It was designed with a custom aluminum block (no water), full bottom-end girdle, larger bores than a 392, drop-in cylinder liners, etc.. It could accept most 392 internals (rotating assembly, cam, etc), could run "normal" 392 iron heads or you could run the special Donovan 417 aluminum heads. None of this was designed for any other purpose than full competition - really with just top-fuel in mind. The tough part was that in truth, Ed Donovan should have built this engine about 5 years earlier . . . as by the time he got it on the tracks, folks had figured out how to make the new 426 Hemi run - and it was a superior platform to the 392. The 417 was competitive for awhile, but his target customers (Garlits, etc) - soon went 100% toward the 426 style platform. You'll still find 417 Hemi engines in some early AA/FD cackle cars - but not a huge number of them (as they're still expensive to build . . . and if you're just going to frigging "cackle", might as well use an iron 392!).

Donovan Engineering was and is in the town I grew up in - "Torrance California" - used to ride my bike past their shop. When I got older I wanted to build a bad-ass early Hemi . . . and put it in something . . . but none of us had the money to screw with Hemi stuff . . . none of us owned a Hemi anything (just too expensive to build).

So fast forward about 30 years, Ed Donovan has passed, Cathy Donovan is still alive (and Donovan is still making a lot of cool stuff) . . . why not build a sort of extreme 392 Hemi for the street and put it in my old 34 five window that I used to drag race with a blown flathead? Seems like a fun idea . . . and I just want to SEE that engine in my old car and get a little taste about some silly old Hemi power in a light car!

Donovan 417 - On the Street - Nope! As the 417 block is "dry" - couldn't run that on the street, but I could just maybe figure out how to run the 417 heads on the street . . . with a bit of 'imagineering' on how to cool the thing, special rocker arm setups, etc.. Why not give it a try.

Okay - Back to 2017 and the Cam Change: So - I don't need to get too crazy with the cam lift and duration - as the cylinder heads have HUGE ports, large valves and probably too much flow for the street - the only reason it has a chance of running is due to the 6-71 'mixer' on the top. So, I wanted a "tweener" sort of cam - something custom, with a bit more duration on the exhaust side (due to the blower). I got ahold of my friend John at Bullet Cams - we talked through the details and came up with a cam plan:

Lobe Separation: 112
Installation: Intake at 108 degrees
Intake:

1. Lift: .360 lobe, .540 at the valve
2. Duration: 277 @ .020, 248 @ .050
3. Timing: 16 - 52

Exhaust:

1. Lift: 3615 lobe lift, .542 at the valve
2. Duration: 282 duration @ .020, 253 @ .050
3. Timing: 62.5 - 10.5

 

Out of Mothballs and Cleaned Up: I moved the engine back into my working area of the shop, uncovered it and cleaned all the crap off of the block. Everything is looking good - just like when I put it to sleep.

Block: It is a 57' 392 - 'A1' casting. It has been bored .030.
Lower Mains: I had ProGram Engineering make a set of billet 4-bolt mains for the center three caps. This is to add some strength to the bottom end.
Crank: I pondered going to a 3/8" or 1/2" billet stroker . . . but decided I was getting a bit silly and decided to run an original 392 crank and not go for huge cubic inches. The reasoning was that since this is primarily a street car, do I really need the additional horsepower of more cubic inches? Logically - the answer is 'No' . . . but I'm still pondering my reasoning.
Connecting Rods: Oliver 426 Hemi steel - narrowed to 392 width, 6.86" length (stock 392 is 6.95). Pin is 1.032 diameter. These are about the best steel rods you can get - so for a street car, these makes sense. (Aluminum for full-on racing).
Timing System: I wanted solid timing control on the cam events, so I opted to go with a Milodon gear drive on the front end. These are fairly simple to install - but you do have to drill/tap a hole in the block, so you can't just throw one on later. They do make a bit of noise (spur cut gears), but I figure I already have blower gears to hear, quick change gears to hear - might as well create the 'Trifecta' of beautiful gear noises. LOL!

 

( where is the "giggling like a little girl here" emoji ? )

These will do until then.

 

Cam Installation and Timing: When you install a camshaft (in any engine), you really need to ensure that it is in exactly the correct position (timing wise) and that the timing tag numbers and installation location are met. The cam manufacturer should provide you with the installation location (degrees advanced, retarded, etc) - and the timing events at .050 should line up as noted on the cam card. The sad part is that I've seen plenty of performance cams - from some of the biggest names . . . be completely OFF as far as matching their cam card. In many cases, you can't do a dang thing about it - as the lobe profiles and centerlines are NOT correct or within spec.

Adjustable Timing Gears / Chains: There are two main ways that you can adjust the timing on most modern OHV engines:

1. Adjustable Crank Gear - Multiple Key Ways: Where it has multiple keys cut into it - each corresponds to a different timing setting: Like '0', '2 degrees advanced', '2 degrees retarded', etc.. You'll frequently see this setup on double-row performance timing setups. If you have the choice to buy a timing/gear setup that is adjustable - it is a great idea.
2. Vernier Drilled Cam Gear: The easiest way to describe a 'vernier' hole pattern is that the number of holes in the gear are setup in a relation to the gear teeth such that you can rotate the gear (one direction or another) - and change the timing of the cam (advance or retard it). You can rotate the gear 360 degrees - and setup the timing to be exactly where it should be. I prefer this approach - though you usually only see it on high-performance gear drive setups. One thing to note, these gear drives do NOT come with timing marks on them - so you can't just align the marks, throw it together and "you're good to go" - you really need to use a degree wheel to set them up correctly.
3. Milodon Gear Drive - Early Hemi: The upper cam gear is a two-piece gear - one piece connects to the cam snout (call it a flange), the other outer piece bolts to the flange. This allows you to rotate the outer gear to any of 7 potential locations on the flange. This is similar to the Donovan Gear Drives we run on the FlatCad and other engines.

Installation and Checking the Timing: You can read all sorts of internet posts on how to install a cam and check the timing of it - most of them go on for paragraph after paragraph. I've read a bunch of them and some seem to confuse the reader more than help. So, I'm going to tell you how I do it . . . it is the easiest of all methods. (At least I think so).

1. Install a degree wheel (the larger the better) - and locate and setup a pointer for Top Dead Center on #1 cylinder. You can use a dial indicator or a 'bump stop' method of setting up TDC - but you HAVE to do this before anything else.
2. Now that you know where TDC is, rotate the crankshaft in the running direction (usually clockwise) until the degree wheel is at the location where the cam intake lobe is supposed to be at for the .050 lift numbers/setting. What you're doing is putting the crankshaft where IT should be - to match the timing tag. In my specific case the tag said "16 degrees before TDC". This is where the crankshaft should be when the cam is lifting .050 off the profile - on the opening side of the intake ramp.
3. Now, with the timing gears OFF the camshaft - install it in the block.
4. Put a set of lifters in for #1 cylinder - with a bit of oil - make sure they move freely.
5. Setup your dial indicator to read the lifter for #1 intake.
6. Rotate the cam (by hand - no gears yet) - to the back side of the profile for #1 intake (no lift). Set the dial caliper at zero. Rotate the cam back and forth a bit to ensure you're on the backside - the dial indicator should stay at .000 lift.
7. Rotate the cam in the running direction (usually clockwise to match the crank) until the dial indicator reads .050 (just like the timing tag shows).
8. So where are we??? Think about it - we have just rotated the crankshaft to be where the timing tag says it should be (number of degrees before TDC) and we've installed and rotated the cam to be where it is supposed to be --> .050 off of the base circle on the opening intake lobe ramp.
9. Now that the cam and crank are where they're supposed to be - put the dang timing chain and gears on it (not moving the crank or cam).
10. Vernier Gears: On a setup like mine, I put the big timing gear on such that the hole pattern aligns with the hole pattern on the flange underneath it (two piece gear on a Hemi - flange on the cam with holes in it). I take a flashlight and keep rotating the gear such that I can see a point where the holes perfectly align - making sure to NOT move the cam. One of the 7 positions will be correct (on this cam drive). I check my dial indicator again - yep, it still shows .050 lift.
11. Timing Chain: On this setup all you're trying to do is to find the RIGHT crank gear keyway, that allows you to install the timing setup without rotating the crank or cam. You may find that you have to find the keyway that is the closest as you can get. (Keep the dial indicator on the cam - making sure it stays at .050 and doesn't move).

I made a short little pushrod that goes into the roller lifter - and centers the dial indicator. This allows me to easily find the .050 location. I kept rotating my top gear (hole location) until I found the exact place where it just dropped on and I could put the bolts in it. Cool . . . Jed's a millionaire!

Timing Validation: Now that we've setup the crankshaft in it's correct location and the camshaft in it's correct location and connected them together with our timing chain/gears, we should be able to rotate the crankshaft and observe the open/close timing events and they should MATCH the timing tag . . . pretty damn closely!

On this roller CAM from Bullet - everything was EXACTLY correct - to within less than a degree. Also, the dial indicator showed the exact profile lift on the cam card. This makes me happy - it is the way it SHOULD be and is also one of the reasons I go with Bullet Cams.

Side Note - Intake Centerline Validation: I also verified the cam setting using the "intake centerline" method - as a cross check. It came in at exactly 108 degrees - which again matched the cam card. I'm not going to attempt to explain this method of timing checking - if you want to know it, feel free to ping me and I'll send you one of those long-ass documents that will probably confuse your ass! LOL



Okay - time to finish this and get on to block painting . . .
B&S

 

Looks like a fun education.
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

Thanks for the info.
I need to figure out how to adapt a gear drive to Plymouth flat six. Just cause

 

Knowing your craft is an art, it is quite evident you do and your quite the writer. Looking forward to the Hotrod you are going to unleash upon us.

@Bored&Stroked give us a little teaser of the recipient of this monster your creating......thats been tucked in the corner...curious minds want to know...

 

Oil Pans and Pumps - Decisions, Decisions: When I originally built the engine, I had 'Steffs' make me a custom high volume drag-style pan, with trap doors and all that fancy shit. They make really nice products and it is exactly what I ordered.

BUT - after that, I picked up a new Milodon drag oil pan for a 392 - along with the special oil pump, pickup, etc.. So now I'm a bit torn, but I think I made up my mind on what to run this afternoon:

Here are the two pans - both are high quality products and would work just fine. BUT, I had to check myself at the door and remember . . . I'm building something that is styled after the 60's era -- and to be true to that period, I really should run the Milodon pan. Also, I have always liked the gold iridite finish - just looks like a race engine is supposed to look.

Here are the two pans:



I then looked at the three oil pumps that I have - two are reworked late model Chrysler stuff (Milodon, etc). I decided to uses the one where I'd make a special pickup to fit either pan . . . just like the way it was setup:



I have about 3/8" of clearance between the pickup and the bottom of the pan - about right . . . so I'm cool there.

I packed the pump full of assembly lube - so that it has immediate pickup once there is oil in the engine.

Okay - onto other things . . .

 

Pretty.......so is that some motivation ?

 

Thanks for reading my babble - and for the kind words.

Once I get a bit further, I'll show the frame, engine and body mounted on it - then it heads to Flop for some of his metal magic!

 

Not exactly sure what the question is? But, I find that sometimes I need some extra motivation to get into something that I've put off for a long time. I have a lot of work to complete on the rear and front suspension and I know I'll get it done all the faster once this engine comes off the dyno. I just love starting a new performance engine for the first time - especially a blown one. It is HotRodding Christmas for me. LOL

 

Here we go again !!


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Two silly kids like us coming up with ideas and working together - should be fun at the very least and hopefully pleasing to the eye! Get the boys ready on Walnut street - we'll shake some wax out of their ears. LOL

 

Glad to see this back on the to do list.

 

Threads like this one makes me wonder why I don't get on the HAMB more often. I love what's going on here. The level of quality in this build as well as your eloquence is refreshing to read.

All of your other threads are great reads as well. Keep it up!

 

Thanks for the kind words . . . posts like this help keep me interested in taking the photos and documenting the work. Have a great Thanksgiving! I'll be back to this thread next week . . .

 

Killer build and great info with explanations. Took note of some things already to help me out on my build. SUBSCRIBED