My plans changed quite a bit since I started about 3 years ago. I'm starting to get the delusion that my Pontiac is going to be somewhat fast! The only big problem is the rear end. I'd really like to have a posi. I'm going to need a new driveshaft anyway, so now is the perfect time for a swap. Getting a posi 57-64 rear end would be waaaay out of my price range, but my dad has a pickup bed trailer with a 59 Ford 9 inch. Traction-Loc setups are really well priced, so I think this might be my best option. I have enough clearance that the extra inch of width shouldn't be a problem. I understand that I will need to move the spring perches. Is there anything I should watch out for? Thanks!
Your Pontiac has a 5" lug bolt circle.......the Ford, if a pickup axle, is 5 1/2", if passenger car it's 4 1/2". you might consider changing the rear end to match your front hubs.......or vice versa. Otherwise, carry on! Ray
That 9" rear is not real strong as is, most likely...do you know if it has the small or large wheel bearings? it will be 28 spline either way. And brake drums are kind of hard to find, does it have all the brake parts?
I went through this with my 40 chevy coupe project. I figured if I built this 58 ford 1/2 ton, 9 inch rear axle [also from under a 60 dollar P.U. box trailer] piece by piece, I could pay cash for each piece over time and the end cost would be lower than buying a "store bought" axle from Currie or those other axle vendors. Right. After buying an "N" carrier case, aftermarket 31 spline axles with 3 different bolt patterns, the aluminum Daytona pinion bearing retainer, rebuild kit for the posi unit, new bearings, gaskets etc etc etc....the bill came to $1400 when it was finished. And I shopped for my parts, too! Damn! I could have bought a Currie unit for about the same $$$. Jus sayin
I didn't spend that much on the 57 wagon 9" rear in my Chevy II...I think..but I could be wrong. it sure adds up! the neat thing about the 9" is that you can buy anything you need for it. The problem is that you need to buy everything for it.
I would save up and keep the Pontiac rear. Here's my old Falcon with a 57 Pontiac rear. 3.64 posi. By the time you buy an aftermarket carrier, pinion support , Trac-lok ,gears. overhaul kit. axle bearings. How much money will you save ?
I have not been following all the threads you have . Can you briefly splain . You had original motro stuck, got another motor(270) then had a problem with metal in a motor ? Now a 389 is going in ?
Checkout frankspontiacparts.com They usually have quite a few parts. Could probably build one from what they have available relatively cheap.
In stock form the Pontiac is stronger. The 9 inch ford can be made to be stronger, but it will be all aftermarket parts. The 9 inch Ford in my old blue gasser was a housing. The rest was aftermarket. The 9 inch going into my Morris Minor Gasser will be a Ford housing with bracing ,because the flex. An aftermarket carrier because they will blow the pinion right out of the top of the carrier. A Daytona pinion support to keep the front bearing in place. A spool to replace the open diff. 33 spline Moser axles to replace the factory 28 spline toothpicks and that is for a light car with a 289. You are building a heavy car with a big motor. Oh yeah, I forgot the replacement 1350 u joint yoke.
I have Ford housing and ring and pinion gears and backing plates, the rest is aftermarket. And the housing cracked, then got a brace to help prevent it happening again.
I had to brace the housing on the 9 inch in old blue coupe after pulling the chunk and seeing some big gouge marks where the pinion was trying to go through the back of the housing. They flex more than you think. I had a 5.86 gear and a 5800 stall. Leaving right on the convertor with a transbrake puts quite a shock on the driveline. My new car will leave at 7,000 with a sintered iron clutch disc and a 5.43 gear. No babying parts. Both of my last 2 cars were light under 2800 lbs with me in it and relatively low horse power between 5 and 600 and not much torque. For a stock housing, I like a Dana 60 much better than a 9 inch Ford. Keep the Pontiac.
Even a 56 Pontiac rear end with 10 spline axles? I thought the 57-64 rear end was the desirable one. I took a closer look at it today. There are two 3.70 tags still on it. The brake parts actually look really good. I'll do a real tear down to see what I really have when i get a chance. On an unrelated note..do you guys think I should stick with the 3.70 ring and pinion? That would give me an RPM of 3125 at 75mph (it's going to be a driver). Is that acceptable, or should I be looking for some 3.50 gears?
Yes, the desired Pontiac rear ends started with the 57. Many of them were used up during the time period and not cheap today. You are limited with what you can do with the 56. The extra width will work but you will be limited to 7-8 inch wheel depending on back spacing. (ciphering that out myself right now). 56 does have 10 spline axles. 29 started in 57. I'm pretty sure no one made a posi for the 56 back either. I'm no expert on the Ford so............. I can't help there.
in the old days, 3.70 was a highway gear....but yeah, that's been a while. I have put some miles on my cars and trucks with that gear ratio. You can, too.
I had a 95-01 Ford explorer 8.8 under mine, ran in the 10's with it. It's an inch narrower than stock which makes getting wheels on and off easier. Usually have 3.73, posi, 31 spline axles and usually cheap at the junkyard like 100 bucks. Disc brakes also. But 4 1/2 bolt pattern, same as 9". And has a pinion offset to passenger side and have to clearance x frame some. Now dana 60.The explorer disc brakes bolt up to ford big bearing new style ends, so had those ends put on the dana 60 and have disc brakes as well.
Well...I finally got around to tearing that axle out. I've been really happy with what I've found so far. The brakes are mint! There has only been one problem...there is a lot of offset. The pinion is offset on the center section by two inches. The housing itself is offset another two inches, but in the wrong direction. Is four inches of offset acceptable? From what I've read on here, I think it might be alright, but I'm a little nervous about it.
If you're just running it on the street, I would pull the axles and get another the same length as the short one and have the housing shortened on the long side the same distance as the shorter axle. Put it back together and run it.
In my opinion you already have the Pontiac rear, housing, brakes and center section. A new posi from Fab Craft is about 695.00. I believe the 3.70 r&p will bolt on. Mosier axles are reasonable with the right bolt pattern. A very wise friend of mine that I should look at the weakest link, he just rebuilt my 64 Olds/Pont. posi unit for my 57 Chevy, I wanted to get all the billet bullet proof stuff I'm only running maybe 4to 450 hp. I would be more concerned with running a M-20 trans than I would putting all the money in the race type Ford stuff. If I check I might have some of the Olds/Pont. stuff you need for your project, I'll check tomorrow. PS; 3.70 is a good ratio for your car just don't run short tires. Pat
You might want to recheck your measurements. The 9" pinion is offset less than 1" (15/16") from the carrier center. The distance from each axle end may be about 2" different, but the actual offset is 1/2 that. So, you might have a total combined pinion/housing offset of about 2", instead of 4". The center section pictured looks like a "WAR" casting that has a bad reputation for strength, so as others have stated, you'll be replacing most of the parts to start with, except the housing, if you plan on "fast".
The 56 and EARLIER rear ends are no where as strong as the 57-64 units; the OP has a 56 rear end. At one time, there were performance upgrades for the 56 and earlier rear ends, and some stuff is still out there on the used market, but in a big heavy car, he needs to update to something stronger. The OP is also finding out all Ford 9 inch rear ends are not the same. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Today I finally got the rear end all torn down. The wheel bearings were junk, but all of the other bearings looked great (I would never reuse them, of course, but I take them as a good sign). The axles looked mint and I never saw a chip on any gear! One thing to note is that this is one of the even-axle 9 inches (and 28 spline). I've got a Trac-Loc coming, so I'm hoping to get it back together soon. Obligatory Pinion Angle Question: Because I've got a new transmission, I'm making new transmission mounts and can choose output angle. I have complete freedom over the pinion angle. What should I choose? I thought about making it level, but I have no idea what the right choice is
You have the king of tear ends already in that car . Forget about the Ford 9". It's a toy compared to the big '57-'64 Pontiac/ Olds. Check out Fab Craft in Texas. Brad the owner is super cool and they have ALL THE parts you will ever need for your Pontiac 9 3/8" including a new bulletproof posi called the trophy trac. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Do any of you guys responding with "use the Pontiac rearend", realize his rearend is a 56 year? It is NOT a 57-64. His 56 rearend is not a good choice and OP needs a different rearend for his car. Since he has the 59 Ford pickup 9-inch he wants to use that if he can. I think he can use the 9-inch, with some rebuilding and moderate upgrades, it will live fine. Especially if on street tires and not slicks, the tires will spin before the 9-inch breaks. Even on 28-spline axles I think street tires will be OK. If he wants to get new axles, then upgrade to 33-spline as they will still fit stock bearings. Just get the appropriate 33-spline carrier to match. Or go with the easier to find and lower cost 31-spline.
Adjusting side bearings turned out to be a lot harder than I thought it would be, but the rear end is finally all back together. The only thing left to do is weld in new spring perches, and that means I need to choose the pinion angle. As I said before, I am making new transmission mounts, so I have a lot of control and a lot of decisions to make. Is lining up the pinion and the output shaft the best thing to do? I understand that needle bearings need some angle to spin, but the out of center pinion should accomplish that. Also, should I install the rear end before welding the perches? Thanks!
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