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Customs 1961 Chrysler Front Suspension anyone worked on one?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by draginsteel, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    I am having some issues with this 1961 Chrysler Newport - mechanically it's mostly stock; 8 cyl push, button automatic, pulled it into the garage and lifted it as high as I could. Amazed at how little there is posted on the internet on 1960 Chrysler's. I needed to redo the back brakes, new solenoid on the starter, and fix and repair the clunk noise coming from the front passenger wheel when I applied brakes. Chrysler has engineered all 3 task to be a royal pain in the arse.
     

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  2. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Appears the front wheel noise was coming from worn or busted upper control arm bushings. I didn't know this when I started so I ordered an upper ball joint and the bushings. The upper ball joint rubber gasket was gone, so it didn't look very good, I guessed that could be the problem and how hard could it be to change a ball joint? I was able to unscrew the bottom nut of the upper ball joint, I tried prying it apart with a smaller pickle fork but it wouldn't come apart. I did find online the ball joints are threaded onto the upper control arm at factory installation and are very hard to remove and this is best done at a suspension shop. I removed the upper control are nuts and pulled it out of the bracket. At this point I thought I could just cut off the upper ball joint and then ram the bolt down through the spindel arm. After going through a whole pack of Harbor Freight metal cutting saw blades I got it off. Apparently the bolt is tapered and there is now way it was going down through the hole.
     

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  3. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Upper control arm
     

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  4. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Option 2 was take off the lower control arm, disconnect the steering, at least I would have the whole thing off and could either take it somewhere or have it on a vice. On this model Chrysler the lower control arm is attached to the Torsion bar that has a bolt through the lower control arm between the frame. The only way to remove this 4' long bolt "bar is to remove a rather large bolt on the transmission cross members. When I went to remove this bolt as I got near the end of it coming out (it's threaded about 20 turns) it became extremely difficult to turn. I did spray some lubricant on it. I'm wondering if anyone has ever taken one of these off off/out and will I be able to get it back in if I do take it off working under the 12" clearance the car is off the ground.
     

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  5. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    What I would like is get the upper ball joint bolt back out of the spindle. Otherwise I have to hope nothing brakes when I'm taking the lower arm off, bleed brakes and everything else that can go wrong. I tried using a sledge hammer, C-Clamp, till I bent the C-Clamp and finally the crappy Harbor Freight vice I got to fit in there. Should I heat it? I have a plasma cutter? Any thoughts on how to get that bolt out of there. Thanks.
     

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  6. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    You can see how much pressure was put on the bolt
     

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  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,939

    squirrel
    Member

    wow....that's a strange way to take a ball joint out.

    If you smack the spindle on the side, where the ball joint stud goes through it, it will usually come out pretty easily. Or use a large pickle fork. but that's if you don't cut the ball joint apart first. I think you might have really jammed it in there by trying to force it out the bottom.
     
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  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Had it occurred to you to obtain....and read....a shop manual before diving into this project?

    Ray
     
    73RR, 49ratfink, stillrunners and 5 others like this.
  9. Don't imagine you have an oxy /acetylene torch, huh?
     
  10. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 4,040

    gene-koning
    Member

    Well, your in luck, there should be another ball joint between the lower control arm and the spindle, you have another chance to ruin a ball joint. I might suggest you read or watch a U-tube video on separating a ball joint tapered shaft from the spindle. By cutting it, you have created a whole lot of extra work for yourself. You are also created a lot of extra work by pulling the torsion bar off rather then separating the lower ball joint. By applying as much pressure on that ball joint stud as you have, it may have bent. If it bent, you will need to cut the bottom end off as well, and machine the stud out of the taper spindle housing.

    If your having that much fun with the front suspension, wait until you try to separate the tapered rear axle from the rear drum. Those really are a bear. You will need a special puller to get that apart. I've been known to change a complete rear end rather then fight with the axle & hub taper.
    Your fun is just beginning. Gene
     
  11. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 500

    low down A
    Member

    is there anyone near by that can save that poor Chrysler and take away your tools
     
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  12. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Don't want to be there when he has a go at the rear brakes....
     
  13. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    1. I have separated who knows how many hundreds/thousand of ball joints from the spindle by loosening the nut and then hitting the spindle squarely beside where the stud goes though it. I used a 2-1/2 lb machinist hammer but any hammer about that size will work. I used the same hammer on my seldom use pickle fork. One thing, quite often the pickle forks intended for tie rod ends are too small in the opening to work on a ball joint.
    If I am taking the spindle off, I always loosen both ball joint nuts an pop both ball joint studs loose from the spindle before removing either nut. It's just a hell of a lot easier that way.
    Note, the torsion bar lower ball joints on Mopars have a little slack in them from the factory. Good aftermarket may not have as much but factory lowers may not have as much slack as the oem ones. I got in the middle of a lawsuit over that when a shop in Waco told the customer the ball joints on his less than 1000 mile new car were shot because they had movement in it and the whole judge, jury, and half the courthouse were standing around my alignment rack while I explained how they worked what the factory limit was and demonstrated how much they moved which was well within limits. The owner was suing Chrysler over it.
    On the torsion bar, I hope you counted the turns that you backed the adjustment bolt off as you want to crank them back to exactly that amount unless you plan to lower the car.
    ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT ON THE TORSION BARS. They are left and right and cannot be switched side to side . If you take them clear out mark them left and right before taking them out.
    If you haven't found it already there is a spring clip at the back end of each torsion bar that you have to take out before you slide the bars back. I usually marked them and put a matching mark on the piece they went though to index them the same as they always had been. They don't come out easy but they will come out.
    The upper control arms are held in by two eccentric bolts each with offset washers on the. That is how you adjust the caster and camber on the car. If you haven't taken them loose yet take a marker and put a mark on the washer on the bolt head side and a matching mark on the piece it goes through. That lets you put it back real close to where it should be when you put it back together with the new bushings.

    When you get the A arms out it works real well to find a piece of pipe that just fits over the metal part of the bushing so you can set the A arm on it and then take the bfh and knock the bushing out with one lick most of the time. Flip it over and with a piece of pipe or a big socket that just fits over the rubber part but fits up against the steel sleeve you can knock the new ones in easily. If you have a big heavy vise you can set the control arm on the open jaws so that the bushing goes down between the jaws. That makes life pretty easy.
    One thing I am going to say an that is never upon never again attempt anything on that car without studying how to do it with a factory shop manual and if you don't understand the process ASK FIRST . We may toss out a ration of crap once in a while but we don't want to see anyone screw up his car by doing something wrong or worse yet get hurt working on his car.
    You are always welcome to pm me with a question if you are unsure of how to proceed. I may not always know the answer but I am damned good at finding the right answer.
     
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  14. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Man...you are well on the way to ruining your car over simple repairs.
    Well...simple to someone who knows what they are doing!
    You need to find someone with experience and then LEARN by watching, before your "project" goes down in flames.
    Pulling the torsion bar to remove an upper ball joint?
    Get help before you go farther. PLEASE!!!!
     
  15. Have you bothered to find a workshop manual.......the front end is basically the same from 1957 onwards if that helps and someone mentioned the rear drums requiringa special puller.........YEP..........get the absolute BIGGEST puller you can find.....one that bolts onto the drum and has a very large bolt that you screw against the loosened by 3-4 threads the large centre nut.........once the puller is bolted hard up onto the brake drum and the centre bolt is hard against the brake drum nut you then find the largest, heaviest hammer you can find and give the centre bolt on the pullera large wack.........you should find that you need to then retighten the centre bolt and wack it again......the puller with the drum attached should spring off...........do not stand in front of the puller when wacking for this reason as the drum and puller won't take kindly to your feet or legs being in the way when they come loose............have attached a pic of a puller I have had specifically for tapered axles, its never met an tapered axle it didn't like, btw that centre screw thread on my puller is about 1&1/2" diameter.........get a LARGE PULLER...........lol...............regards, andyd
     

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  16. I hope this is a poor attempt at humor and not an actual true story! :eek:
     
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  17. graveyardsledder
    Joined: Oct 30, 2006
    Posts: 294

    graveyardsledder
    Member

    Is that a vise in the picture being used as a ball joint press? With a chrome socket?

    Go ahead and have 911 on stand by.



    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  18. cshades
    Joined: Sep 2, 2011
    Posts: 554

    cshades
    Member
    from wi

    Why didn't you ask on here BEFORE you started?
     
  19. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Are you serious? You can see by the replies, the H.A.M.B. is just loaded with a bunch of grumpy of farts who somehow make themselves feel more important by making fun of other people. First I did look on the internet, there is nothing on early 60's Chrysler's front suspensions. (Except the Imperials website) Second I do have an acetylene torch. Third the rear drums are already off and I do have the puller for it. I have done ball joints before, wasn't a big deal. No Car is going to be ruined. Thank you for your comments.
     

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  20. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    You have little justification to complain about the replies you received. They were AFTER your amateur attempt to do this repair, not in response to any prior questions about how to best proceed with this repair.

    I will concede there is a tendency to 'pile on'......but your approach was surprising.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  21. southerncad
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 949

    southerncad
    Member

    So let's see, your response to a LOT of helpful info was "You can see by the replies, the H.A.M.B. is just loaded with a bunch of grumpy of farts who somehow make themselves feel more important by making fun of other people."...Well, maybe your on the wrong forum.
     
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  22. Draginsteel......my apologies if I came over as a bit grumpy, tho' I concede I am an old fart.......lol........you obviously have had experience with the mongrel tapered axles, however I would still suggest getting a workshop manual as I think it may have saved you a bit of grief with the front end............anyway nice to see another land yacht saved.......regards, andyd
     
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  23. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Perhaps you should read the responses, there was one helpful response. that's not a LOT.
     
  24. draginsteel
    Joined: Oct 21, 2007
    Posts: 463

    draginsteel
    Member

    Thank you. Our library was out of Chilton's 1961 Chrysler manuals. I'll figure it out.
     
  25. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    www.faxon.com sells manuals for almost every make and model.

    Ray
     
  26. chriseakin
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 391

    chriseakin
    Member

    Found a manual on bookfinder.com, price tag is $52 and change.
     
  27. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    I still think you're biting off more than you can chew by how you went about removing that ball joint.
    I'm not making any apology and stand by what I said.
    YOU spelled out your lack of experience by how complicated you made a very simple job.
    I hope things go better for you in the future.
     
  28. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 7,856

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Buy a real Chrysler shop manual. Chiltons & MoToR aren't the best for the job.
    When we had state inspections I worked on those Mopar ball joints a lot. Bought the 3/4'' drive sockets for Chrysler cars from Mac. First thing I'd do - mark the socket I used on the torsion bar adjuster, & back it off 10 turns. Everything goes smoother when you don't have to fight the tension.
    Mellow out a little. Old guys that call you on dumb shit always win ... and the condition of your tools reflect on the quality of your work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  29. Mopar upper and some lower ball joints screw out to take out. They screw in when you are replacing them. They sell a socket for this. When you have a new one in your hands you can see the threads. Hope this helps......
     
    Bruce Fischer likes this.
  30. Jack E/NJ
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 836

    Jack E/NJ
    Member
    from NJ

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