For louvers in my shop you pay hourly shop rate for whatever time it takes to do the job. Price per louver doesn't work for me because set up times vary greatly by job.
I don't know anything about louvers, but I've seen posts about people making a louver press. Is it something you could make, that way you don't have as big of an initial investment?
SEVERAL YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A SHOP IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THAT CHARGE $5.00 PER LOUVER. REASON BEING, IT ONLY TAKES ONE TO SCREW UP A PANEL, HOOD, OR TRUNK LID.
I have the Mittler Brothers 3 ton manual bench press with a shop built die. The limitation of this setup is depth of work, but it's been fine for my home shop over the years and I use the crap out of that press for other stuff too.
I searched for a used press for a time and found a few that were not for sale and were not being used. A newly manufactured press/tooling was out of the question because I would not live long enough to pay for it. I looked at several photos if presses and built one. We made the tooling as well. The louver design seems to please most everyone. I offer a 3" a 3" old school and a 4 " Custom louver designs can be done requiring new tooling if desired. I also make louvers on a P5 Pullmax. I look at it as a service to offer, cash flow and referral value. It is not good profit on it's own. I charge $2.00 each plus set up. With little to no advertising, requests for louvers come at a somewhat steady rate. If no one is offering the service near you I would seriously consider equipping yourself with a press and tooling and get the word out.
Local guy used to have a $75-$100 layout fee if you brought in the panel in bare steel-both sides. If he had to strip paint and undercoating, it was an additional prep fee. Then the per punch price after that. I don't think you'd get away with mispunching/screwing up a panel. It would be on you, same as if you warped a panel someone was paying you to weld.
[QUOTE=" I don't think you'd get away with mispunching/screwing up a panel. It would be on you, same as if you warped a panel someone was paying you to weld.[/QUOTE] Hmm, anytime I take something to an automotive machine shop they have this on the work order. "custom machine work, no guarantee" So I asked them what they did that wasn't custom work? The owner just smiled. I would guess a louver shop could use the same idea.
There is nothing you can do or get done for $2 a hole. I’m in agreement to charging by the hour. I also think buying a press far outweighs building one. Just my opinion. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Have never been a fan of louvers but saw a home made press that I thought was neat. The ram was mounted to some king of structure in the ceiling and the table with (I believe) the female die(s) was indexed in alignment with the ram. With no throat limitation any size panel could be punched. IIRC it was at the old original Smiley's shop in Oak Cliff when it was owned by Charles "Smiley" Sitton. That shop has been gone for many years.
I have known "SMILEY" since high school. He sold his press years ago. I have one that I still punch louvers for him and some of my friends. I live in Denton
I built my louver press about 15 yrs ago. I thought that I would punch louvers for some extra money once I retired . What I didn't consider is that I would grow old. Laying out louvers and punching them hurts my back , I can't see to punch them like I used to. I only punch louvers for my friends any more. When I do louvers, once we decide what the layout is, I ask to just leave the part and I'll call you when I get it done. I can punch a row then I have to take a break.. Back when I first started punching louvers, I practiced hammering and shrinking a mistake back flat again , just in case, but hoped that I would never have to do it. Bill
I bought a press about 16-17 years ago new on eBay from a guy down near Peoria, IL. It was about 3K and had 3 dies, 1", 2" and 3". It was a great machine but I had to turn the dies around and add a splitter edge to keep the metal from falling away next to the cut. The guy designed a great machine but apparently never actually punched any louvers. I punched almost 500 3" louvers for my track roadster pickup and another 1500-2000 punched over the next 14-15 years at $1.50 per hole - no set up charge. I did a big down sizing of shop and other stuff about 3 years ago and sold it to Mike at the Gas Axe Garage in Allendale, MI - just west of Grand Rapids. I don't know what he charges but I got lifetime use along with the sale. I've done one small job for myself recently. I wasn't running a business though and in the end I probably broke even and had a lot of fun with it. I'd have gotten rich if every guy who talked a good line about wanting louvre actually had them done. Louvers aren't for everyone.
Let the local RV dealers know you have a louvre press as replacing water heater and refer doors that blow off of trailers and motor homes can be very profitable
A suggestion that will make your life simpler if you do get into the louver punching business, based on 30+ years in the metalworking business on the manager and owner end of things .......... You will get more business if you can quote a firm price for each job, and you'll have far less problems from people who want to argue price after the job is done. The goal in any business is to make some money by doing paying work. Spending 3 hours discussing what is and isn't possible with the customer whose job involves only 2 hours of work means you spend 5 hours to get 2 hours of pay. If your prices are based on a shop rate of $50/hr, then you get $100 for the job and you're actually working for $20/hr. To avoid this, you have to separate the concept of a free estimate, which should take no more than 10-15 minutes for a job like this, from the concept of doing free design work for the customer who has nothing more than a general idea of what he wants, and can involve several hours on your part. You can eliminate 90% of your wasted time by making up a detailed information sheet to give to the customer when he contacts you in reference to a punching job. It should include the following information. What tooling you have. 2", 3", 4", whatever you have as well as the style which would be either standard or domed. Pictures of the style(s) you can punch should be included. Minimum spacing along a line of louvers. This is typically determined by the dimensions of the female die. Minimum end to end spacing. While the absolute minimum would be based on female die width, it would be better to determine the minimum workable spacing via some test panels. Explain that a raised louver is punched from the underside of a panel while an inverted one is punched from the outer side. Pics of each would be helpful as well. Explain that a louver cannot enter a curved area along its length as it will kink the panel. Have the customer sketch rectangles with a Sharpie on the part showing the extent of each line of louvers. Include a sketch showing, for example, 4 rectangles representing 4 lines of louvers along a hood. Reinforce the fact that the layouts have to be on the underside or outside, depending on whether the customer wants them raised or inverted. Include any other information you consider pertinent. Don't assume the customer knows something just because you consider it second nature in the process. And finally, let the customer know that he's saving himself money by deciding what he wants and doing the layout work in advance since its work you'd have to charge for as a part of the job if you have to do it for him. When the customer brings you the part, you'll be able to throw a tape on his layouts, calculate the number of louvers to punch, and give him a price within a few minutes. He'll get a reasonable price and you'll be able to make money punching louvers rather than spending time making sketches and trying to come up with something that satisfies the customer.
I think have to point out that while louvers may be in demand now, looking forward, I think the demand will seriously decline. Look at the kinds of cars louvers are put on-then ask yourself how many younger folks are into these kinds of cars. I am not saying you won't keep busy, for a while, but if you're buying a press you need to think long term payoff.
in 1958 i was at the SEPRING races and saw a guy punching louvers there, 61 i tryed to find shop to get louvers , none. 1974 was at machine shop to get dies made was going to make press. on way home stopped by resto shop, he asked what i was doing, told him and he said yesterday another friend asked him if he wanted a louver press that it was in a junk yard in West Palm Beach, i went there and bought it for $250,it was the same press that i had seen in Sebring 1958. its a GM manf. inc., made in Ca the good times press is a copy of this press, mine is round tube his squar tube. still have it punch for friends mostly. was hand pumped at first after hand pumping 8 hrs on a 50 merc hood i bought air over hyd pump. i think the HAND pump did a nicer job, air seams to build up a lot of pressure befor it shears the metal [ mine are flat top dies], think i would have gotten a elect hyd pump next time. METAL on old cars is mostly better than new crap, some metal will punch great then an area the die will slide, one day i was having this trouble and a MUDDOBER NEST fell on the part and a fine layer of fine sandy grit spread over the part, die never slipped again. today, i have a little can of 35-60 sandblast sand next to press and sprinkle some on befor punching, no more slipping, been doing for years, no harm to die. also sand both sides w/220 grit befor punch, makes priming easier, i hate sanding louvers my throat is 40+-''had to punch for a valance 65'', coiled the flat metal up in press, punched sheet then put in brake to bend sides., people ask how i got it in my press....GOOD LUCK
For NE rod builders, I was pleased with Jim Lowery's louver work in Tilton, NH. He helped w/the pattern layout too.
Puff, if you get the machine, before you expire ill take if off your hands. Been some great info on here about machines and business. I came close to buying a machine a couple years ago that was in Nebraska. Never really wanted to go into business, but just love the damned holes in stuff. Didn't have the space for a machine at that time, now I've got it.
Good for you. Once you get set up , throw some pictures our way . I would like to see your set up. Bill
Glad you had a safe trip back. Sunny with a few clouds here but you know how fast it can change. If you have any questions let me know.
Looks like he bought the press from Redhead and got it home. Now lets see how he does punching holes. My hood was punched with an air operate press in Bremerton Wa in 1980 or 81. I think that press is still in the Puget Sound area. Dad shocked them a bit when he showed up with the 48 Chevy truck hood in the trunk of his Olds 88 with the trunk lid closed. As far as what you charge or how you charge it comes down to what your time is worth and what your overhead is worth. For a lot of production shops it is a time consuming end-ever that may actually use up more shop time for what they get out of it than other processes. I'd agree that those little simple jobs like punching replacement covers for rv equipment may be the profit item. Not much money out of each one but easy setup and probably a steady but not overworking business.
best money jobs are for commercial jobs, not hotrods, they take too long w/layout. punched hundreds for generator covers for amusment park, straight flat alum, bang, bang, bang.......
I would bet that the large louvered panels in commercial use are punched with dies incorporating a large number of louver dies that punch the required number in one stroke. Not one at a time.
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