interesting subject, I concourse detailed a car for Pebble when I had my detail shops in Santa Barbara. It was a beautiful classic that was built well as most Jags are. When I went to the Pebble show a couple of times I was just overwhelmed with the glamour of the whole event. I didn't really think about over-restoration at the time. However there were no hot rods at either show I attended. I understand the taking away of the original methods etc. of vintage customs and rods, but if it's not my car I can't dictate the method to make the owner pleased. Yackty yack!!
We build Shiny paint stuff for customers, but I have 2 little ones, and a wife. We have a Gravel Driveway and Live in the country. I don't have the time or patience to wash a car every time I want to drive it. So my style is the Original Rusty/ Patina Look cause I just want to hop in and enjoy it. The rides below are some we have built I absolutely Love/ Loved. The 53 Green Truck Is happily Residing in Tom Ball Texas, The 50 Fleetline is in Florida, the 55 is my DD, and the 52 Black truck just went down the road a few hours to the East.
Hello, We should all be happy that there are people (hot rodders) out there that still love what they did back in the late 50's and 60's. But, to continue their hobby or pastimes, the race car has to be up to today's standards, just to fire up. Back a few years ago, Don Garlits was interviewed and said that there are more race cars today that are restored than there were back in those days. Look at the quality of work done by guys like Marty Strode, DREracecar, Pat Ganahl and others here on the HAMB. Those are quality restorations, but up to today's standards for just running the race car. Are they over restored? There are some old race cars that just don't look like they used to look back in those old days of the drags, but after 60 plus years, it is nice to just have them sitting there to soak up the history behind those race cars. But, get that Ivo single Buick out, please...! Some of the colors of old are difficult to match up exactly, while others are not. But, the overall race car present, today, the time it took to restore or rebuild it, the effort behind all of the prep work and presentations have to be outstanding work to pass the tech inspections. Let alone, the keen eyes of the old racers. The work on those old race cars is outstanding. It is all about showing something that got your heart racing a little faster driving it or watching it while it was firing up. The "cackle" shows bring back all of those old memories, so with today's better economy, the builds are pretty outstanding. (Checkmate, Sidewinder, Magicar) Jnaki I have to admit, that 59 years later, looking at all of the restored race cars at the Lions Dragstrip Museum was pretty fantastic. The old memories came right back into view and the sounds were just as fabulous as back in those days. The cars were top quality and should be because the majority of the people there were from the industry and old racers with similar memories. So, the displays better be good and of course, they were. One of the interesting things is that when some of the race cars on display moved in to the complex, they fired up to drive in. That was pretty fabulous. When they were ready to close up shop and put them back on the trailers, the fire up was loud and attention grabbing. With the sharp eye of the old drag racers and hot rod enthusiasts looking, it better be good... This is from the old hot rodder's perspective... The Pebble Beach crowd is another story...
To borrow OP quote, I like: "ok with running an old hot rod part with a few bumps and bruises? A hammer dropped axle rather than some super smooth one. Or something else that was actually as it was in the day" I really don't have a lot of interest in layers of Bondo & super mirror finish paint job. I like bugs in grill, driven-not enclosed trailer. But, I live on a dirt road, so it fits my preferences & my lifestyle. I just drive my '39 like it was driven in the 40's. No wax massages, buffing, or California Car Duster for me. If I'm at a cruise or show, & a kid expresses interest, I say jump on that running board & try out that window crank, get in, take a picture, here's how old cars used to be. Wine & Cheese Concourse not really my thing. Just fits my lifesyle, & others don't really have to like it, but some do.
Somehow my point kind of slipped away in this thread. When you look at old pics of lakes race cars and early customs and things there weren't perfect. The Spurgion Chevy with the track nose is a classic example. When it was built the nose was full of hammer marks, after Reston it is super smooth. Not a great example but an example.
Last car I built was a trailered concourse '69 Mach One Mustang 428SCJ. The car was certainly worthy of restoration, and we put in a lot of extra effort to not "over restore" it, including rocker panel overspray and slop bucket bottom paint. We dealt with the "ripping out $400 of NOS weatherstripping because we got dinged a point for the wrong color glue" BS and I swore never again. The thing that makes hot rods so fun for me is that there are no rules. If you like it, do it. Like most hot rods, the car I'm building now has had multiple POs who contributed to getting it to the state it is in today. Each of them added to or changed the car to make it what it is, and while I have respect for what was done before, I don't have any reservations about doing whatever I want to it. It has a hi-po flathead with nice patina that I don't think I would ever touch, but I installed a modern collapsing steering column without a second thought because I don't want to die like a cocktail weenie on a toothpick. When it comes to the proper treatment of old race cars and "magazine cover" barn finds, I do think rarity and historical significance adds a certain responsibility to maintain the integrity of the original item. Myself, I am simply not interested in agonizing over all those details. Been there, done that. If it isn't a museum piece, then it is just a hot rod, and a hot rod should be an expression and a reflection of the owner and builder. That's really what makes them so special and, in my opinion, there is no such thing as hot rod that is "wrong".
here is the simple answer for this conundrum (thanks spellcheck) CARS = WOMEN yes that perfect supermodel is hot so is the size 14 dimpled bottomed Marilyn Monroe as we age a little we appreciate the lines on a womans face and maybe the not so perfect body. so one car can be perfect and another can show its age well and still be sexy. its all about stance and attitude.
I'm just doing some minor work to the tank and bumper area of my 33. I was pleased to find some used but good condition OE Ford 1/2" nuts and bolts to replace the perfectly good brand new ones I fitted a few years ago when I got it up and running. Mart.
I like the old one. The guy who built it originally probably wanted it to look like the over restored version. Not my car, so I don't have any say in what happens to it.
I enjoy the controversy but doing an over or what is considered to be way over restoration can hurt some (ego). I had my fathers complete 1939 Indian Sport Scout he purchased in 1943 and made the desision to restore it in 1996. By 2000 it was completed and truthfully better than any factory assembly. It was AMCA judged in California just missing 100 points. I took it to Ohio to get another AMCA judging and warned it probably was not a good idea. The bike was kicked and kicked hard and could not reach 85 points. As I was leaving I was asked if I had any questions and I did make one statement concerning correct seat springs but told the head judge as I was loading the bike away from anyone else that the AMCA would never see the bike again. And it hasn't, as today I road it to Donut Derelicks like I often do. But it taught me when I wanted to find a street rod or whatever you want to call, I wanted the best I could afford and one done that the owner/builder was doing to get judged. That's what I did when I bought the 56 Victoria in 2012 we have now. Nothing is ever perfect and to some will never be. I know every little tiny thing wrong with it but I don't care to most it is perfect and even tho I've spent too much buying it and too much making right for me I still don't care. All I can say is a frame off restored car makes a great user friendly hot rod, street rod, etc once sorted out. After a complete stripping and repaint the Ford is even better after 5 yrs. So do what YOU want and what YOU like and be happy.
I enjoy wearing well worn jeans but with polished shoes or boots and a crisp, clean shirt to keep me from looking like a homeless person. It all about balance. Old paint is no problem unless it's matched with torn upholstery and suspension that's a poster boy for death wobble. A bit of crusty/rusty/dusty is fine with me but perforations and panels that don't line up seem to be saying "low quality build here" to me. This is just my latest opinion status which could change. I have enough holes in my head that you could say I have an open mind.
I just read this whole thread- not exactly sure as to why, but maybe because I'm always interested in people's perspectives and opinions (and I don't require that they match mine). I totally appreciate the work, time, effort and cubic $$$ it takes to build a competitive show car, PB car, Amelia car, etc.. If you want to build the most highly crafted piece of rolling art work - and can afford it . . . go for it. But - we all know that for show-quality cars to be competitive, they will not be driven, nor raced. That is the rub for me - I like to drive my cars and I'm not a museum owner. They lose all fun for me when they aren't on the road - doing what they were designed to do. It is the same reason I'll never own an over restored race car - as what can I do with it . . . but look at it? With that said, I do appreciate that others do find, build or replicate vintage racers of all sorts - as I like to LOOK at them and their associated workmanship, just don't want to own one myself. I understand and appreciate the fine 'fit and finish' work - which can be much better than the pocket books or time allowed back in the day (for many of the cars that the HAMB enjoys). Many are what has been called 'over restored' - but one has to ponder whether or not the original builder would have LOVED to have their car that nice? Would they have turned them down and then NOT raced them? Who knows . . . I will probably build one show quality car . . . maybe I'll show it and then put it on the road . . . never to be shown again (I kind of like that approach). Hell - I might not even show it . . . just do the work to the level that could be competitive. In the end, do what makes you happy, don't be too judgemental of others and keep doing the best work you can do (given your goals and circumstances) . . . or can afford to pay others to do. I'm a perfectionist, though I've learned to adapt my OCD tendencies to the end in mind. There is a place for almost all styles and levels of final fit and finish . . . as long as the cars they're delivered on are correctly engineered, safe to drive and safe to be on the road with. If you've ever been strapped into a roll-cage, had a fire suit on, reminded yourself where the 'big red fire bottle button and chute levers are' and got ready for a run - you understand that solid designs, the right materials and quality work are the foundation for everything else. Whew, too much coffee today !!!
The Doane spencer roadster and frank Mac roadster and isky roadster are 3 that come to mind for this discussion , by all accounts they were well built cars beyond what the typical hot rod was 2 of those cars survived unrestored and I really appreciate the fact I can see everything as it was built ... Doanes roadster was supposedly so far beyond what was being done back then , I would have really liked to see his work not the over restored version , the car is beautiful and one of my favorites but it doesn't really tell the true story of doane's work anymore
If you think a car is over restored, just go out and drive it on the street for a while and the problem will be solved. Easy.
I think people miss the point here firstly is the car to be driven or a museum piece if it is to be driven it must be safe and conform to current regulations. Then is the car deteriorating then it needs attention to at least to the point wear it stays in the same condition as it was found. Lastly it is the posession of the current owner who can and will do what he damm well likes with it.
I don't like the new polished version, but that's just my opinion. I guess one way to look at it is that at least they didn't paint it red with flames and put cragers on it. What I mean is at least they respected the original builder enough to stay with his original idea of the car. If it were mine, I'd have left it unpolished.
Your car looks really nice, far from a rusted out hulk. However as soon as you put a SBC in a model A it's no longer stock. I do like a decent paint job, not fancy, just decent. My cars are constantly driven.
If it's a customer's car, they get the very best work I can do. No "driver" quality jobs. Money can't be an issue. If I'm doing my own car, that's where the fun is. I think that may be why customer cars get over restored. Can't let second rate work out of the shop because the customer may not explain to people picking apart the shop's work that that was not supposed to be perfect.
because the customer may not explain to people picking apart the shop's work that that was not supposed to be perfect............ ain't that the truth !!!
I've never understood how shop owners dealt with second or third class work that was requested by a customer. I just worked there and followed orders. Used to just kill me to do second class work, just were is that line? "Oh, he doesn't want to spend a lot of money" Really? Install rubber stemmed inner tubes in freshly painted wire wheels with new tires week one, then take them apart the next week and replace the tubes with metal stemmed tubes. That is TWO mountings, PLUS the time to remove the tires from PERFECT freshly painted wheels. We're saving money now. Bob
That's the joy of doing all the work on your own car, yourself. You can build it how it should be built. Some of them need to be close to perfect, but others need to be not so nice.
This can be a volatile subject, for sure. Myself, I like restorations that look like it just came off the assembly line. But, in some cases, the car may be too far gone to give much reference to go from. As always, the paying customer will dictate the quality/level of restoration/over-restoration. The one shop example that sticks in my head are the Mopar guys that paint the inner structure with base/clear befrore
Before welding the quarter panels on. On my own stuff, no, I won't do that, but if someone wants it done that way, I would be happy to do so.
In 1980, my Ferrari 340 Barchetta won the Hans Tanner Award. It was over restored, but raced as long as I owned it. This year, seven of the Specials which raced at Pebble Beach in the early 1950s have been invited for a non judged display. Three of them are in my avatar. Those three are raced few times a year and two of the others get less frequent track time. I don't know the present owners of the final two cars, but know they were both vintage raced 25 years ago. So, no static display museum pieces in this small part of Pebble Beach. Please stop by and introduce yourself either on the show field or in Row Q in the pits at Laguna Seca. We race on Saturday, and the Group 5A entry list looks like it will be great fun!
The Jalopy Journal
