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Technical electric or mechanical?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by eddie rockitnyc, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Elbopper
    Joined: Apr 29, 2012
    Posts: 109

    Elbopper
    Member

  2. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    What I was getting at, was sometimes the answer isn't what worked for the other guy or guys. There are a shit load of over heating threads on the HAMB and they usually boil down to the poster figuring out what works for his car. I wasn't singling you out, per say, but after I just reread my post, I see how it could have been taken that way. My apologies.

    When I read a lot of tech questions, it makes me remember when, if a person was having a problem of some sort, they figured it out for themselves. I'm as guilty as the next guy of posting on the HAMB for help, without even trying to get the answer myself. Shit, some folks are too damn lazy to check GOOGLE and that usually sends them here.
     
  3. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,698

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Yeah, that makes people want to ask for advice on the HAMB......Not!

    Sent from my SM-G550T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  4. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 658

    proartguy
    Member
    from Sparks, NV

    IMG_1910.JPG
    The '49-50 Plymouths have an air tunnel from the grill to the radiator to direct the air. The '51-52 models came with a deflector in the hood to do the same thing.

    Pictured is the stock '49 setup.

    I use a Flex-a-lite fan mechanical fan with a shroud on my '51 and it keeps my 318 cool in 100 degree weather.

    Make sure all the air is going through the radiator.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
    eddie rockitnyc likes this.
  5. Air dam between the radiator top and the hood a must as well as lower rear corners of engine compartment must have good place for the hot air to exit the engine compartment
     
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  6. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,286

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    heh, heh...you said "boil down" on a heating issue thread....:D you old wordsmith.
     
  7. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    thanks for the pic, i think i can whip up a shroud to direct air over the exposed area of the rad.
     
  8. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    hey man, thanks for the clarification. i'm reaching out to all you guys who may have a collective, 500 years of experience after i try all i can mechanically and BEFORE, i spend a ton of dough. hopfully pass what has worked on to the next guy who needs help.
    thanks to all who took time to send their expertise!
     
  9. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    thanks for the video. did some inspection of my water pump and only found this: (see Pic) never found any info on this casting #.
    maybe you recognize it. thanks again. explosives - 1.jpg explosives - 1.jpg
     
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    I wouldn't have clue on the #.
    Let me ask a few things.

    Did you buy the crate engine new?
    Did it come with the WP?
    If you bought the engine new, what was the p/n for it?
    And if it didn't come with a WP, do you recall where you bought it...most online sites will have a record, as will AutoZone, Orielly's, etc., for the warranty.

    Just to be clear..is your engine set up with just one serp belt for everything?
    Or are some accessories run off a V-Belt as well?

    As I recall, if the WP turns CW while facing it, you need a standard rotation pump, if it runs CCW, then you have to use a reverse flow pump
     
  11. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
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    from Chino, Ca

  12. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    hey again, unfortunately i have little to go on as far as origin of the WP.
    i had bought a running car from someone.
    all i know is that is has a GM crate motor. and full serp belt.
    pump i believe, runs CCW. i thought a method of testing would be to disconnect the upper hose, crank the motor, then see which way the water is forced.
    sound logical? thanks again. E.
     
  13. rjones35
    Joined: May 12, 2008
    Posts: 865

    rjones35
    Member

    So, serpentine belt setup with a water pump that's a standard rotation? So the coolant isn't moving in the radiator, is that right? Sounds like an issue.
     
  14. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member


    You'd have to pull the Tstat as coolant (should) come into the block from the lower hose, and out the top hose.

    Remember, even if the wrong pump pump is in there, "some" water will be able to move through, though.

    But I've never tried that before, so wouldn't know what is good flow or bad flow.
     
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  15. And just to help out here on the standard / reverse rotation issue - the fan has to be the right rotation, too. An engine like the ZZ4 use a reverse rotation pump and has to have a reverse rotation fan, too. If the WP is turning clockwise looking at it from the front, it should use a standard rotation pump - if it's turning counterclockwise it should have a reverse rotation pump (and fan). When I get back to the shop, I'll look at the serp setup on my 50 Pontiac - I came off a Camaro and is all stock GM stuff. Sometimes it's really easy to get off on a tangent and overlook the basic stuff.
     
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  16. I used to make the stock car shrouds out of aluminum flashing, so they wouldn't damage the radiator if I crashed and it got moved around. Use a pizza box as a template, transfer it to the aluminum and pop rivet it together. Minimal expenditure (pizza is the cost driver...) and you'll know right away if it works. Then make the shroud out of something heavier if you feel like it.
     
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  17. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    bob good info on making a shroud, but eddies problem is running hot at highway speed when you don't need a shroud or fan.

    Gary
     
  18. Gotcha. I would try to get some heat out from under the hood, even 10* would help, maybe louvers? Or try it w/out the hood and see what happens.
     
    eddie rockitnyc likes this.
  19. The Camaro serp setup on my 355 in the 50 Pontiac uses a reverse rotation water pump (and fan) IMG_0064.JPG
     
  20. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 658

    proartguy
    Member
    from Sparks, NV

    Without seeing the setup the O/P has there is a lot of shooting in the dark on this thread. Maybe he can post a shot of the engine compartment.

    None-the-less, some sort of way to make sure all the air goes through the core is important. At higher speeds the air has to be directed or it will flow in the path of least resistance. None of my cars have electric fans, all cool well even with a/c in 100 degree weather.
     
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  21. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    Thanks fo your post.
    It seems I have the same set up.
    Pulley spins CCW. But if the water is in fact being pumped from the top of the radiator to the bottom,
    Why would that create a cooling problem.
    Cheers. E.
    according to the video, I have a reverse flow pump. What would you think is the next thing to be aware of from there?
     
  22. Eddie, if the pulley is turning CCW, then you should be using a reverse rotation pump - basically, the vanes are the opposite of a standard rotation pump, and the coolant flows through your engine the same direction as it would with a standard rotation pump, it's just made to pump correctly for the serpentine setups that basically use the backside of the belt to drive the pump.The drive setup for the serpentine belt will turn either pump CCW, but only the reverse rotation pump will pump correctly turning that direction. A reverse rotation pump on a standard rotation belt setup doesn't work either. I think the belt setup on my Pontiac came off a '85 or 86 Camaro or Corvette.
    I think that's probably a casting number on the pump in your pic - won't necessarily tell you much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  23. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    ok
    let me see if i get this correctly;
    i'm certain now, that i'm running a reverse direction pump, driven CCW by the back side of a serp belt.
    when you say "pump correctly" do you mean, from upper hose, through radiator then back through lower hose into the pump?
    and what do you mean by "A reverse rotation pump on a standard rotation belt setup doesn't work either".?
    (when you say "either"you make it sound like your previous explanation of pumping direction is wrong as well.)
    please clarify.
    lastly,while working out a few details over the weekend, i noticed, at high revs, the upper hose is collapsing.
    would it mean a reinforced hose will cure this, or is it a pumping direction problem again.
    thanks for the insight. E.
     
  24. Eddie, the flow in most chevy engines (at least before '92) is as follows: coolant is pulled into the pump through the lower radiator hose, through the pump and out the two smaller holes at the back of the pump into the block, circulating around the cylinders then through the heads, into the intake manifold water passages, then through the thermostat (when it's hot enough) into the upper radiator hose, then into the top tank of the radiator. Then it flows down, is cooled by the air flowing through the radiator, and the whole process starts over. That's a little oversimplified, but if you're collapsing the top hose through suction I'd say the flow direction is wrong.
     
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  25. eddie rockitnyc
    Joined: Feb 10, 2006
    Posts: 79

    eddie rockitnyc
    Member
    from nyc

    Great description. Confirms my suspicions. Now what prayers should I say before I try changing it back to stock?
     

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