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Technical 6 volt systems - Positive or Negative ground

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tubman, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have been trying to determine whether I should proceed on the production and marketing of the Tach Driver we have developed that allows the use of readily available 12 volt negative ground tachs on 6 volt positive ground systems. Being a Ford guy, I assumed that all 6 volt systems are positive ground. I quickly found out that Chevrolet 6 volt systems are negative ground; who knew? Can you guys that know post which systems are which ground? e.g Mopars? other 6 volt GM cars? Kaiser-Fraser? O/T foreign makes?

    Thanks,

    Tubman
     
  2. funny story.
    1970
    I had just bought a really cheap (25$? 50$?) wornout 1950 Stude bulletnose because I thought it looked so very weird, and a h.s. buddy drove me over in his 52 Chevy to give the Stude a jumper and make sure I made it home.
    After a whole lot of cranking and fiddling with the carb, I got the Stude running and idling ok, but left the jumpers hooked in case it died again.
    My buddy opened the door on his 52 Chevy to get out, letting his car door touch the Studie bumper.
    He really freaked out when he saw the sparks and flashes as the two cars tried to weld together.
    It was so funny.
    We draped a coat over my bumper so it wouldn't happen again. :)

    why be ordinary?
     
  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So I can assume from this that Studebakers are positive ground?
     
  4. The 52 Chevy was 6v neg ground, and the Studie was 6v pos ground.
    When the door touched BOTH cars had a dead short across their battery terminals.
    :)

    why be ordinary?
     

  5. TagMan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 6,295

    TagMan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Until the change over to 12v which occurred between 1953-1956, most cars were positive ground, including:
    Mopar, Ford/Mercury/Lincoln, Cadillac, LaSalle, GMC, Packard, Hudson, Nash, Pierce Arrow and Studebaker, were all positive ground

    Model T Fords were negative ground and Ford changed over to positive ground with the Model A's. Also negative ground were Buick, Chevrolet & Oldsmobile

    I believe most imported cars of that period were positive ground, too.
     
  6. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    If I'm not mistaken, many old british cars are positive ground. Lucas electrical systems, most famous for being unreliable.
     
  7. 4dFord/SC
    Joined: Sep 12, 2004
    Posts: 837

    4dFord/SC
    Member

    Lucas: Prince of Darkness;)
     
  8. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    My/The 1951 Henry J is supposed to be POSITIVE ground, it was/ has been NEGATIVE ground, for the last 35 years that i've owned it. I did NOT make the switch/turnaround, OBVIOUSLY it CAN be done.

    .

    1005151307.jpg
     
  9. henry's57bbwagon
    Joined: Sep 12, 2008
    Posts: 680

    henry's57bbwagon
    Member

    HenryJ is pos ground, don't know about other KF cars. Mine is now 6 volt neg ground.
     
    Terrible80 and henryj1951 like this.
  10. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    Correct.... but a whole bunch appear to have been switched ....
    ie: yours / mine ...
     
  11. foolthrottle
    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,402

    foolthrottle
    Member

    6 volt positive ground just never looked right to me, all my 55 Chrysler. had damaged relays, I assume as a result of being jumped with a 12 volt negative ground. Years ago I bought a 1950 Ford Woodie with the battery hooked up positive ground, to correct this I turned on the headlights until the battery was completely dead, then reversed the terminals.
     
  12. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    I can understand the change to 12 volts - engine compression ratios were on the rise for one thing, and new accessories hogging lots of juice.

    But why the wholesale change to negative ground? What was the reason offered at the time?
     
  13. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    "Claymart", thanks for the link. There's a lot of interesting information there.

    "Truck64", I think I read somewhere that positive ground is a little more efficient and you need everything you can get with only 6 volts. I know there is an explanation, but I don't remember where I saw it. Don't worry, on this site, someone will come up with it.

    Thanks to everyone who answered. I have the information I need now. I really never considered the existence of 6 volt negative ground.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  14. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    Here in Sweden he has been credited with being the man who invented darkness. :p
     
  15. Murphy32
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 753

    Murphy32
    Member
    from Minnesota

    ...It's also reputed to be why the British drink warm beer :D
     
  16. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    And they call it "positive earth", just to make it more confusing.
     
  17. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Here's a five (5) page discussion on the "why" negative ground, though it seemed to mostly revolve around which way electrons flow. So I'm not sure any definitive reason was given.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/posts/5487771/


    And this was kind of a big deal at the time, I'd expect, just considering the fact virtually every manufacturer decided to drive on the other side of the road, so to speak. I don't get it. Flouride in the water? Commies stealing our precious bodily fluids?? Elvis didn't join the Army till '58, so that's not it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  18. Technically, Lucas didn't invent darkness. :cool: But I do believe they perfected it and hold a lot of the patents for it. :rolleyes:
     
    G-son likes this.
  19. jseery
    Joined: Sep 4, 2013
    Posts: 743

    jseery
    Member
    from Wichita KS

    The switch from pos ground to neg ground had to do with the use of more and more electrics in cars. Transistors and other devices prefer the neg ground. For basic car functions it really doesn't make any difference as long as the few components that it matters to are adjusted for it, coils, generators, etc.
     
  20. spooler41
    Joined: Feb 25, 2007
    Posts: 1,099

    spooler41
    Member

    Just join the neg. ground crowd ,it's been the convention for more than 50 years now.

    .......... Jack
     
  21. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,245

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Model J Duesenbergs are positive ground. They don't need a tach upgrade though, all came with cable-drive rev counters off the back of the right cam (yes, 2 cams).
     
  22. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,916

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damn! There goes my potential market!:D

    But a legitimate question : Were they 6 volts?
     
    theHIGHLANDER likes this.
  23. Positive and negative are simply words. Exchange the word defination and nothing changes, the electrons are just as happy.. Absolutely no performance outcome has been proven better one way or the other, regardless of ill-founded theory, whether transistors or motors or coils or generators. Same identical performance results are had either way. A few welding circumstances aside boways.

    But some folk are neverteless bothered by the concept of 'positive grounds', I think it has to do with something in their infancty that their mothers fed them as later in adultery, they choke on the thought.

    For me, a 'negative ground' sounds dastardly ill founded
    while 'positive ground' has the ring of sweetness.
     
  24. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,309

    R Pope
    Member

    Chev cars were negative ground, trucks were positive. Go figure!
    Boats are positive ground, has something to do with reaction to salt water and electrolysis.
     

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