Hot Rods Need some help/direction on Model AA build

Hey guys and gals-
I have a project I am not sure how to proceed on and was hoping for some feedback. I have searched this site and the internet in general and im about on overload.

First the Truck- Its a 1928 Ford Model AA stake bed truck that my Grandfather bought in the 60's for use in his service station. He planned that he and I would restore it some day but unfortunately that didnt happen. When he passed, the truck was given to me. It is too far gone for a restoration, but I would like to get it on the road again. I plan to not modify the cab and use the stock frame. I may use the fenders IF I can. Picture of the truck in its current condition attached.

So I want to start working on it soon. I did get the engine running and still deciding if I will use it or upgrade. The rear end will definitely be replaced. The front suspension is what I need advice on.

I am wanting the truck to turn out like the "Johnny Suede" picture attached, but with a stake bed. The front tires are huge and I understand what to so to swap the spindles for disc brakes and such, but doing that would leave the truck still up in the air with smaller wheels on it. I know I can buy a dropped axle, but is that the only option? Is there a way to change the front spring/cross member to get it to drop a bit?

I have no problem to buy a dropped axle, but I am trying to use as much of the original suspension as possible- If I replace it all then its not my grandfathers truck anymore. If I have to change it all, Then I might as well just go mustang 2 or something...

The other question I couldnt find much info on- This is a model AA which is the heavy duty truck.. Will regular Model A suspension parts like the front axle work? are they basically the same?

 

Worst case, I wouldnt be completely opposed to building fenderless like this one attached

 

Looks like a great project especially with the family connection. I would be sure to have the name of your grandfather's service station lettered on the doors. As you can tell from my AVATAR I like the stock exterior look. My AVATAR is powered by a 181 cubic inch Mercrusier (basically an industrial version of the 153 Chevy II passenger car engine). I would keep the fenders and paint it with an era correct combination including a black radiator shell, headlight buckets, and tail light buckets. Stock upholstery and conservative if not original instruments. I would run the original instruments with add on gauges mounted on a bracket around the steering or into the passenger side kick panel where the driver can see them. Assuming you are not planning to use it as a truck I would use a dropped '32 passenger car axle in front. I believe a Model A passenger car front suspension would work (depending upon how you are going to use it) but a '32 looks better dropped. What are your plans for an engine, that might determine the rear end? If you are conservative with your engine choice a banjo from the later Fords ('33-'48 might go well). Remember the '42 (approx) to '48 were open drive banjo rear ends. I know that the big trucks didn't use the banjo rear end but they are era correct. I would try to keep the original wires you have in the back and maybe find some smaller ones from the '28-'35 Ford passenger cars to compliment them or maybe go to to bent spoke Kelsey's all around widened for the rear. Maybe big and little wheels from '32 (18") and '35 (16"). Definitely keep us posted. I look forward to watching your project. For your information a good source for truck parts is Mack Products, (660) 263-7444, wwwmackhils.com I think they even make complete stake beds. It may just be me but I wouldn't go fenderless or with a Mustang II suspension (they may ride good but in my opinion they look like hell on an old vehicle, especially when combined with fenderless).

Charlie Stephens

 

Charlie's got some great ideas. I took a different route back in the 1970s, buying a 1960 F-350 and pulling the rear axle, front spindles, steering column, brakes and 17.5-by-8.00 wheels (including duallies in back) and tires. Any rear axle will have to be adapted to the cantilever rear springs, but its basically putting ears on the top of the axle and setting up lower bars to hang the axle off those massive springs. A Dana 60 from a Dodge truck might work, if you can find one, but that's the heft you want. I am just using the stock front axle, bent a little to adapt to the different spindle angle of the F-350. Photo of my rear axle may help.

 

This is where I'm going. I'm hoping to fabricate some sort of express bed. Sold the stake bed 35 years ago when I needed money, and now regret it. Let's see what you're working with. We like pics, and cheer on progress!

 

"If I replace it all then it's not my grandfather's truck anymore"......you've nailed it......you are at the fork in the road. I am a 71 yr. old with a bias for old trucks......old race cars .....old motorcycles .....and old tractors. Anybody can do a "Johnny Suede" and there are variations and clones of that vehicle sitting at any weekend "show and shine".
My bias would be to honor your grandfather.....your family history......your heritage......and maybe restore a family heirloom to pass onto your children. Anything can be restored and larger old trucks lend themselves to nice lower $$ restorations and are not held to the same standards as cars because after all......they were workhorses......they were used and abused.
Do a paint scheme to honor your grandfather's business......do a stake bed....possible somewhat smaller wheels and tires......put a flathead V/8 in if you must......make sure whatever you do for brakes will stop you.....put in a trans with overdrive if you must.....stock or close to interior.......in the future find something cool to put in the stake bed......1/4 midget......antique scooter.....soap derby car etc. etc.

Then later.......build a suede ground scraping tire smoking hot rod with the skills you've acquired restoring your grandfather's truck.....include your family.....have some fun.

 

It's a 28 so the front end is the same as 28 thru 31 front ends except if you are running stock shocks and mechanical brakes you need the AA spring perches. The ball is slightly higher and are marked AA right on them. The spindles and drums are different as well. They are much more beefier than the passenger car.

If you are dead set on using the original frame which is extremely stout than I would recommend you look for an express bed for it. It converts a stake bed into a 1.5 ton pick up truck. They came full fendered from Henry and are highly sought after. It took me around 20 plus years to find one that still needs a ton of work. They are very rare. On the other hand a TT express box can be made to fit the AA and the TT boxes seem to show up all the time. Don't pay anymore than $600.00 for a good one. The AA express box is going to be $2,000.00 to $2,500.00 for a decent one.

The rear fenders for these are Express truck only and are pretty tough to come by as well. Lefts are plentiful but the rights are really hard to find. Most guys that have them will only sell them in pairs so I would suggest not buying a left first as I did but look for a decent pair.
You can get repo running boards and splash aprons at Mac's. yours has the short aprons and boards that won't work with the Express bed.

If you are trying to build a tribute to your grandfather than the easiest is to build another stake body as that is what that truck was when it rolled out of Henry's shop.

 

You lost me at disk brakes..........

 

The only piece of that truck that looks like a hot rod to me is the cab. I'd either pluck that off sell the frame and start from there or build it as an AA truck as it was built.
Model As have been built a trillion times using the car/ light truck frame. Its the most straight forward build you can do. Instead of jumping through hoops to make that big frame cool and functional save yourself the headaches. It'll get done and you'll get to drive it and that's what's important.
That being said I've seen big frames used. Everything's been done but why bother.
Truck seems like a pretty good start to me. Good luck

 

I definitely like your Ford F350 idea. Any chance they used the 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern? That rear end should have the "bulk" needed to go with the rest of the truck. The ratio in the rear end will probably need to be changed depending on the use of the truck. Might be good as is with an overdrive transmission.

Charlie Stephens

 

The rear differential on my '29AA is a Rockwell, unbelievably stout! As you said, Charlie, its a 5.14:1 ratio, but tall tires and an overdrive (I'm using a 351W with an AOD) puts it right in the sweet spot. I think Radio Joe is probably looking at a way to use the banger and keep the mechanical brakes, which will be marginal but can be done safely. I don't think the intent is so much to hotrod it but to get it to move under its own power and honor his grandfather.
I sometimes regret not staying with the banger, the overdrive and keeping the running gear original, but I really wanted some highway capability, and a 7.14:1 original ratio would have made the engine come apart at 35 mph. I also wonder whether I should have gone with the Y-block from the F-350, but it was pretty worn and the four-speed's case had been broken and brazed back together, so it wasn't going to be an option.
Tractor Guy acknowledges some of the drawbacks of these big-boned girls, but they still like to dance.

 

You are building an "A", and this pic is a 32, but if you use this pic as a guide, your truck will end up very slick!

 

Be inspired! Have fun! Share the journey!

 

Here you go..... Found a pic of a mildly modified AA Ford stake bed truck.

 

The cab hood, grill and front fenders are all the same, to build a pickup you need a passenger frame. I would build the stake bed truck like A Boner shows, frame is beefy enough, dropped front axle and 9 inch will hold up to anything you put in it.

 

Hey Everyone- Sorry it took me a few days to respond. Been busy at work.

Thanks to everyone for their advice, knowledge and suggestions! I do appreciate it!.

A Boner- That AA stake bed you posted looks really good. We may have a winner. Maybe the wheels/ stance from the 32 you posted and the rest like the 28. Ill make a build thread when I finally get into it. Hopefully soon.

 

Hello, I'm Flatheadward I live in Alaska and have a complete truck like yours, mine is an early 28 with the splitrim spoke wheels on all 4, this is a relatively rare version as it has the shorter chassis and rear end suspended from springs on the side the regular flat beds had longer wheel base and chassis these trucks came with an optional overdrive with PTO for operating A wrecker! I'm thinking of your dad had a service station this truck would make a great wrecker. I understand your desire to make a nice hauler out of it but you might want to do some research before you make up your mind your truck is the only model that used the super large split rim spoke wheels, the other AA's used the stamped steal bud wheels like you have on the front drivers side of your rig, ford made a factory wrecker unit and winch for these. It might be a nice plan to do a restomod to it and have the wrecker in the back!


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I can tell you how I'd build an AA.

With that AA frame, you can drop a flathead or modest SBC in there with little modification likely.

A So-Cal 32 style front crossmember (1" drop) should fit if you want to get into replacing crossmembers. Regardless, if it were me, I'd pull everything but the wishbone and put it aside. Get either a dropped axle or 33-36 axle with an appropriate reverse eye spring and new perches, hardware, etc. Put later pattern spindles on and run 39+ juice brakes. This could drop your front end 2" to 6" depending on how you do it.

For the rear, again if it were me, I've always kinda wanted to see a big Champ Quick Change rear end attached to those big outrigger leaf springs. You may be able to adjust the rear height by removing a few leaves back there and/or the mount points to the rear end.

I would be inclined to build the stake bed to cab/frame width to keep it out of the wind too. Maybe even make some top bows and run a canvas top on it.

I also think a Tow Bed can look pretty cool on an AA without the boom hook on it.

 

Found some more inspiration for you.

 

I recognize those pics! Good call posting them here for inspiration.

 

Here is my 3 cents. When I first saw the picture and the service station came up, my first thought was wrecker. Trucks are everywhere, but you never see vintage wreckers. That will keep you interested in it for a long time.

On the other hand, it's a family heirloom you will probably never sell. Build it the way you want, but if not using all the original parts and planning on swapping the front and rear axles and drive train, I would sell it off as a rolling chassis to someone looking for that and start fresh. Think of it this way, 20 years from now will your current plan still excite you to drive it?


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Hi Everyone.

Thought i would bring this back up since I have been working on it a little as time allows. I found a 1940 Ford drop axle assembly pulled from a hotrod that changed over to Mustang 2. Picked it up reasonable. I added the right spring and different shakles and dropped the front down. With 15" wheels on it it looks good. Low, but good.



Im focusing on the rear end now. Found another post where someone installed an F100 rear with leaf springs and all. Contemplating something the same, but also considering using the original cantalever springs. Im going to remove the rear axle itself and see what I have to work with. Then maybe will decide how to move forward.

Does anyone know- The springs look like they mount by a clamp onto the Axle tube. Is that the case?

For engine- Right now I have a Roller 318 thats in good shape. Also have an overdrive trans from the same dodge truck I got the motor from. Seriously considering using this as the engine/trans combo.

 

Yes, rear springs clamp onto the stock axles. You will need to change to a different axle, of course, and there is a wide variety to choose from, but first measure your flange-to-flange with the drums off to get an idea of axle width. My Rockwell with dualies from a '60 F-350 was a perfect fit for my purposes, but you'll have your own ideas. Once you get the right axle, weld ears on top for the spring, then set up a lower wishbone, or as I did, the bottom two of a four-bar system. I hope the photo helps.

 

Hey everyone- Back again with a small update and more questions. Planned to use the original Catilever style spring set up for the rear. So I purchased a rear disc rear axle from a 98 Explorer (Cheap at the U-pull-it yard). Its a little wide, but should work well for what I am doing. So I planned to take the old rear out and start mocking everything. As soon as I climbed under to remove the spring collars I saw my first problem. Left rear spring eye is broken right at the mount. As soon as the collar was loose it fell right out. So now I will need new springs. And thats where I have been stuck

From my measuring- Springs are roughly 35" eye to eye. Pretty short. Too long for trailer springs, too short to steal from another car. Contacted a spring builder I found online with good reviews... To build me a 5-6 leaf spring in the 35" length and correct width.... $1100.00 for the pair. NOPE! way too much!

Closest I can find are the following:
Speedway front spring for 40 Ford= 35" length. Price isnt bad- Around $180 each. this is a possibility but will need to add leafs to it. little worried this will lower the back too much (lowering a little is fine- I wont be hauling anything with it)

Jeep CJ- around 42" in length- roughly around $100 each depending on manufacturer and options. These extend the mounting points 3.5" on each end. Means either a custom shackle on the front mount OR move the mount on the frame. the other end will simply move the rear end 3.5" further back. I can live with that. im thinking the jeep springs may be better since this is a truck.

So my question is- Anyone know of a readily available spring that is 35" eye to eye? Or worst case 17" from center mount point to one end so that the frame mounts will all work?? Anyone replace their springs with something already available?

Cost difference in the speedway or the Jeep parts isnt much so not really using that as a consideration, but CJs do show up at the local salvage yard so that could be a bonus.

 

Couldn't a good spring company make a bottom spring for you? Or make two, so that they match, left and right? I doubt the rest of the springs in the stack are broken. It shouldn't cost more than $200 for a pair, I would think. Or in the alternative, weld the old spring at the break, since the weld will be more durable than the rest of the spring steel, and I'd be surprised if the spring itself would lose much tensile strength, but I'm just guessing at this point.

 

take a tape measure to the u pull it

 

I sure do like those wheels

 

Thanks again for the suggestions. The whole spring pack is pretty rusty and some pits so I would PREFER to replace them- But replacing just the broken leaf is an option.

Here is a question I havent been able to find an answer for- Most of the Springs I have found in long enough length are 2" wide. The Model AA rear leaf is 2.25" wide. Now front mount and axle mount are no problem with this, but the center (pivot) mount is my concern. I assume I cant just bolt them on like that- they could twist sideways. So then I would guess I have 2 options if I was going to use a 2" spring:
1- File out the holes on the top of the mount and use correct width U bolts
2- Create a bracket that mounts on top of the leaf and is L shaped to run down one side of the spring to take up the extra 0.25" needed by the mount.

#2 would be easiest, but I think #1 is maybe the best way. Anyone ever adapt a skinnier spring to a larger mount??

Hoping to run to the junkyard this weekend to get some measurements and maybe find something that fits. Appreciate the help- This is the first time working on a semi-custom Suspension.

 

Any updates? I've been following for a while and had it with my stock(ish) heap so about to start cutting. Time to toss it back on the AA frame/covered stake bed and look for a newer OHV banger motor. I have a decent plan but curious where you ended on the rear springs? I was going parallel leaf open drive banjo but now thinking of keeping the stock spring set up minus a lot of leafs on the smaller banjo. What did you decide on steering?