Technical Need Advice on Mopar Flathead 6 New Setup

Ok, I'm still learning these 40's straight 6's. (newly promoted to shade tree mechanic), so please be patient with me guys/gals.
Issue is.. I've been given too much advice by too many on the new setup for my 48' Plymouth engine, not sure who to trust... It's a 217/218? and is being machined/a total rebuild.
First I am not looking for speed, but mainly reliability/longevity (obviously), but sound and looks are a added plus, I've added a new dual exhaust manifold.
The advice I need most is go #1 - back with stock single intake with a new Daytona Universal 1 barrel carb, #2 - Offenhauser dual intake w/ 2 ea Daytona Universal 1 barrel carb, OR #3 Offenhauser dual intake w/ 2 ea - Carter 2 barrel carbs. I had several old-timers give me each option, so I am CONFUSED as hell now.. ADVICE PLEASE!!! Thanks, Docwhit

 

Your above statement tells me this: It won't look quite as cool as options 2 or 3, but option 1 will sound the same (you're sticking with the dual exhaust, right?) and be the most reliable and easiest to tune.

 

Ebbspeed is right.If you want to drive it a lot the single carb on the stock manifold is the simplest (and cheapest) set up.

 

have a buddy up in Anna north of Dallas....he runs a two two set up....looks cool....runs okay....he knows what he can't beet ? .....look on C/L he has an extra set up for sell.....here's his 40 Dodge he drives all over.....

 

if you want reliability put a weber or two on it. you may get away with one since you are low RPM.

 

Your going to want a little more power. My first car was a '40 Plymouth coup back in the day with a dodge truck engine. I put dual exhaust and milled the head, it was a real nice runner. The only problem I had with it was the distributor and if I was doing it now a better ignition system would be top priority. I also like the 2 carbs for looks and a little better power.

 

When I go to a hot rod board seeking advice, I'd expect them to tell me to modify it for the most performance with little regard for drive ability or durability. Power tends to be addicting. Once some guys have tasted power, they always want more, and tend to think everyone else wants more too.

If I went to a restoration board, I would expect them to tell me that it has to be restored to original or it won't work or last.

Someplace in the middle is probably where you want to be. The late 40s flathead 6 motors were pretty reliable motors. Small upgrades usually added more power with little effect on the motors life, and some of the upgrades actually improved the motors life.
A full rebuild is a step in the right direction. The dual exhaust is one of those upgrades that won't hurt (and improves power and with the right exhaust, improves the motors sound greatly). Some milling of the head while its being rebuilt will bump up the compression ratio and would increase the power level, but I wouldn't get too carried away. The single carb will be easier to tune, but a slightly bigger carb may help performance a bit, but that should be a discussion between you and your motor rebuilder. Gene

 

Thanks to each of you for your advice, all of it does really help me!!
With all this past advice these older guys & companies were telling me in my confusion I bought every setup possible. So I currently have the Offey dual intake, 2 new 1 barrel Universal Carbs from Daytona Parts Co, and 2 carter/weber 2 barrel carbs that I got from Langdon's Stovebolt (same place I bought the dual exhaust manifold) and of course the stock intake & the rebuilt original Carter/Ball&Ball carb. Still waiting on the engine to come back from the machine shop, it got bored .40 over and everything inside is all new (been cheaper to buy a new crate engine) but I/we love these bulletproof old school engines. Thanks again!!

 

The easiest, and one of the very best, carburetion set-ups for your engine IF THE ENGINE IS BASICALLY STOCK, would be the Carter W-1 tag number 574s used by Plymouth for about 3 months in 1947 while the plant that produced the inferior Ball & Ball carburetors was on strike. All it really requires is a 1939 or 1940 stock Plymouth intake manifold and, of course, the carburetor. Even Carter knew the Ball & Ball carbs were inferior, and even published a troubleshooting guide for the Ball & Ball carb:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Service_Carter_BB_downdraft_issues.pdf

The above document is published to the internet with the permission and approval of Carter.

This is the only instance of which I am aware that Carter found the need to issue a troubleshooting guide for a given type of carburetor. But Chrysler would not spend the additional money to buy the Carter carburetor used by Chevrolet.

It is a proved fact that these (Chevrolet) carburetors will increase both power and economy of the Plymouth engine over the stock Ball & Ball carb. The carbs did so in 1947, and enthusiasts of today have proved the same thing.

As to looks: you are going to get questions at a car show "Why have you got that *&^%$# Chevrolet carburetor on your Plymouth"; and then you can relate the story. Will be happy to share the story with you by telephone, and then you can type here if you wish.

So: additional power, better fuel economy, and a really interesting story; what more could you ask for???

Jon.

 

PM Hitek, and forgot all the conjecture you are reading.
George Asche Dual or Tri Carb intakes, and matched Carter B&B carbs, or a single Carter BB1 and single exhaust if you so choose.
here is mine, runs like a dream, good fuel economy, and decent power for what it is, a basically 100-120 hp stock engine with a long stroke.
Driveability, for freeway/Interstate cruising = gearing, either diff gearing or an overdrive trans, like the Borg and Warner R10 or a Chrysler A833 conversion.
This will allow you to cruise at 65-70 mph, instead of 55-60 mph.
The Chrysler flathead 6 engine, with full pressure lubrication, bearing inserts, forged cranks and hardened exhaust valve seats, will allow you to run well with modern fuels.
There is nothing wrong with the stock ignition with good components, you do not need a Pertronix or a Langdon conversion.
I have also converted slant 6 distributors for Flathead use, fairly easy to do and works well.
Carter B&B carbs work just fine, and you do not need to start swapping them out, unless you want to.
Get the engine running good stock, drive it, and see where you want to take it.
Milling the head, to raise compression might give the biggest bang for the buck.
In the late 1950s the 230 engine went from just over 100 hp to 138 hp, with a raise in compression and a stock 2 bbl carb.
These engines have 6 exhaust ports, and improvements in breathing will be a big help.
Induction is via 3 siamesed intake ports, so running a 2 bbl conversion with an adapter plate is not going to aver be as efficient as 2 or 3 carbs feeding a balanced fuel mixture to the 3 intake ports.

 

You can't beat Langdon's

Ben

 

Tom Langdon is a great guy, but George Asche is the king of Chrysler flathead 6s.
Tom is Chevy, this is a Mopar.
AoK Racing is king of products for these engines, intakes (Custom 2 and 3 carb cast, or stock intakes made into dual or triple), carb rebuilding, top notch multi carb linkage, Split exhaust systems, A833 transmission adapters, B&W overdrive trans rebuilders.
George is getting up there at 85 YO, and has been slowed down a bit by illness, but has been building these engines since 1949, and holds the Daytona Flying mile in 1954with his 265 powered Chrysler flathead in a 29 Desoto roadster at 142 mph.

 

It's all according to what you want to do. The stock engine in good tune has all the power you need to go anywhere in America at speeds up to 60MPH or maybe a little more.

It is also possible to increase HP by 25% to 40% with a few simple modifications, like the intake and carbs, a reground camshaft, dual exhaust, milled head, and lightened flywheel.

Earl Edgerton is the guy for heads and cams.http://www.edgyspeedshop.com/index2.html

Doing one mod, like the manifold, will get you little or nothing and isn't worth the hassle and expense.

The engine itself is strong, and capable of standing up to a certain HP increase without straining itself. Unlike say, Chevrolet which had an inferior bottom end design, or Ford that was prone to overheating even in stock form.

If you are rebuilding the engine now is the ideal time to slip in a few goodies if you know what I mean.

 

I like the GM HEI ignition conversion. They don't know if its in a v or inline, cheap and work amazing on old engines. basically you cut the shaft down, and notch the end to fit the oil pump drive, bingo, Bobs yer uncle. Has anyone seen the flat head six with the 3 carb turbo on YT ?

 

Okay sounds interesting, got any pics of the process and install, on a Chrysler flathead 6?

 

When it comes to carbs for the street 1 barrel Holley 1920 series 2 barrel 2GC Rochester 4 barrel AFB Carter are my picks. I never liked 2 carb setups on inline 6s because you can't use progressive linkage 3 carbs work better.

 

Last thing I would want is progressive linkage on an inline flathead 6.
With 3 siamese ports, a dual or better a 3 carb intake would be far more efficient than a single carb or any size progressive or not. Worst set-up would be a 2 bl or a 4 bbl carb, again with 3 intake ports, what feed all the center 2 cylinders with fuel and fuck the rest.
What you are suggesting would work well with a slant 6 or a Ford 300, which have 6 intake ports. The slant with it's long intake runners works well with a single 4 bbl carb.
I know what works on this engine in my case.

 

Here is the flaty six I ran in my 49 Plymouth and the guy you must chat with is George Asche, Asche Machine in Oil City PA. I started with a 217 and had it bored 100 over. We used a 230 crank, rods and flywheel, Earl Edgerton Head, Isky cam, Arias Pistons and molly rods. Intake was an Original Edmonds, a pair of Carter Webber 2 barrel carbs from Langdon Stovebolt, Langdon's HEI Distributor, Original Fenton Exhaust manifolds and a Flat Attack Oil filter set up. Most import is a regulated 3 psi fuel pump. Ran Magoo for 2400 miles before I finally sold it two months ago. I also ran electric exhaust cut outs and while it sounded sweet running through the smittys it sounded awesome wide open. Lots of snot and ran the interstates at 75 mph. Had 3spd with Overdrive connected to a 9" currie and 3.73 rear. Good luck.

 

Not my car or picture

 

Sorry man that looks about as traditional as rice rocket at a harley run...
I am sure it works well, I much prefer the slant 6 conversion, it s Mopar, and you can use the GM HEI module with it too if you don't want a Mopar box.

 

I'm running a stock carb and intake manifold and Langdon headers on my '53. Works for me and sounds great.

 

If you guys have time take a look at the website below, these are the carburetors (bought 2 for an Offey dual intake) I haven't opened any boxes yet until I got some advice from my new Mopar HAMB family. Open for thoughts and suggestions about these!! I know not original equip but reviews they're pretty maintenance free.
https://daytonaparts.com/universal-replacement-carburetor.html
All the new engine parts (total rebuild kit -- pistons, distributor, etc, etc) all came from http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/ .... thanks for all the advice!!!! I'm learning a lot!!!

 

DocWhit - I have not seen one of these carbs, so my comments below are in the form of a general comment.

(1) All of the information is what is on the website. With a Carter, Holley, Rochester, Stromberg, or Zenith; SOMEWHERE, there are factory listings of jet sizes, airbleed sizes, restricter sizes, etc., etc., etc., AND people that have these listings (some of whom post on this forum). Other than the "one size fits all" from the website, how does one make a determination of whether the carb is right for the application?

(2) If not right, what does one modify to make it right? There is no "baseline".

(3) And the carbs may be the most reliable carb ever made (that remains to be proved) BUT anyone can get a bad tank of gasoline requiring a carb rebuild. Where are you going to find a rebuilder, and where is the rebuilder going to acquire the parts?

To me personally (and professionally) these units have one advantage, they are shiny right out of the box.

And to counter that advantage, one can take a blasting unit loaded with either crushed walnut hulls or plasic beads, and turn virtually any older casting of a known unit into "shiny".

And one comment concerning any carburetor used as a multiple: while adjustable main metering jets are wonderful for single carb applications; unless you have a wide-band they make tuning DIFFICULT in a multi-carb environment, even for a professional.

Jon.

 

I guess my first advise is do a search on this site as there have been numerous threads about MoPar flatheads.

Having said that, I ran a single Weber 32/36 on a 230 inch with Fenton headers in my '46 Plm. Ran great with an overdrive. Would get 20 mpg on the highway with a/c. I realize most of this is not "traditional". But the Weber eliminated any hot start issues and had better torque which is a benefit with the 2-3 gear ratio in those transmissions.

 

After all the advice you guys/gals gave me, I'm making lots of progress! So thanks again!!
I Never knew you could get nickeled & dime'ed to death on a total rebuild!! Damn... Cloth wire $$$$, Meyer fuel port $$, thermostat elbow &separate tube$$$, some Mopar parts companies got us by the twins on some parts, know it & price gouge us!
Mike

 

Speed parts and tech advice are available at www.facebook.com/moparmontana

 

More progress

 

how did it run with dual carbs . ive had a offy 2 carb intake for yrs. but my 50 wayfarer ran so good , ive never had the heart to install it. and with the 300 gears I get 20 mpg. and roll 70 + all day .split exhaust sounds like no other , at any speed!!

 

CRZNDUCK-What is a Flat Attack Oil filter set up?

 

Engine looks great!