Projects 1938 Plymouth Coupe - 392 Hemi Install or Sell to Fund Project

a good 69-71 340 with xheads is going to cost big bucks also. so do you have any friends in the hobby who can help and teach you basic skills of hot rodding? because after a lifetime of messing with this stuff they are never done so if you want to continue do as suggested have vision and a plan and don't deviate from the plans, this why projects get abandoned good luck and stay focused ie: one section at a time and do not be afraid to ask questions

 

Thank you Gene and a big thank you to all that posted their opinions. It really helps...I read everything and do take the advice to heart.

Based on the advice that was written here by much more knowledgeable people, having no illusions on my lack of experience, and thankfully little ego to contend with, I am going to take the route Gene suggested in this paragraph. As this is my first hotrod rodeo I am going to make it as easy on myself as I can. I will either save the Hemi and install it later after I had a few years of driving the car or I might sell it to fund this build. Regardless, I will get some testing done on the Hemi to know condition and build.

So....small block and automatic transmission. ( For now guys.....just for now! Lol!)

So what are the candidates for an easier engine install??

The car has already been setup for a SBC. I don't know anything about Chevy engines. I appreciate all makes/brands but for motors I am Mopar through and through. Every hotrod up here in these parts has a SBC. I would like something a little different. Plus my friends would never let me live it down putting a SBC. Could the mounts for the SBC be easily adapted for a 340/360?

There is a rebuilt 413 for sale near me. Someone had mentioned this as a candidate but seems like a lot of work too.

I guess original with some go fast goodies would be easiest but nothing like this near me.

I would ideally like something very cool that might surprise people.

Thoughts?

 

The 413 is the same engine as a 440 so there is no advantage and the 413 actually has some disadvantages, depending on year and application, so for a 'new' guy I say focus on a small block including the Poly 318. The Poly 318 can often be had for reasonable prices but likely would need an overhaul. Any Mopar engine prior to 1962 will have issues with mating a trans if the original is not already attached and the original is not necessarily a good choice so stay focused on post-62.
Your best route will be 318 or 360 either standard or Magnum. Your local craigslist probably has a continual stream of "parting Dodge" listings with engine/trans assemblies available. Often they are still in the car/truck so running condition can be assessed. If you have room to have a 'spare' parked on site then consider buying a complete car/truck/van so that you can also use many of the thousands of small parts/nuts/bolts/wiring/stuff.
As for the sbc mounts, they will not be usable for the Mopar engine so remove them.

.

 

Man, i hate saying this. I'm building a 392 right now, i love the early hemi stuff and im a mopar guy since birth...... Like it kinda hurts me inside to say it, but if the car is already setup for an SBC..... You should pick up an SBC and put it in. You've got a lot of other things on your plate already to get that car moving. Get it out on the road and sort it out, LEARN!!!!!!! This avoids having to do quite a bit of fab work, you can spend your money and time getting the basic systems setup and good instead of getting stalled out at the fabrication stage. Thats the killer for most new guys. Its better to take the SBC way out then to get buried balls deep and never enjoy the car. If you keep the hemi you can do it later, after you get the car on the road and enjoy it.

On the subject of your hemi? buy a gasket set and tear it down and measure EVERYTHING. You need those measurements to insure that your motor isn't just slapped together and will live when run. I like 73RR's suggestion to sell the rockers and get some stockers and getting a known cam into the motor. If you keep it look up the steps to keep it alive in long term storage. If you sell it you still need to pop the heads/oil pan and take pictures, measure, ect. If things are good this will increase the amount you can get for it as it reduces the risk for the buyer.

 

SBC!!!!

 

There is a red 37 dodge truck on here that has a hemi in it, not sure of his name. He showed how he installed it, and he kept the top of the hood but lost the sides and part of the fenders for the heads to fit. It looks really nice. I have a small block mopar in my 37 dodge pickup I had to adjust the firewall a little but it's in there. Tony

 

Great info. Thank you very much. I have a friend that tried to sell me a running 340 last summer at a fair price. I'll check and see if he still has it. Advice on SBC being the easiest route as it is already set up for it is also a consideration now (never thought I would say that!). Thanks again for the info on the sbc mounts.

 

LOL!! Funny.....putting in a SBC was on my mind when I wrote that post. I was going to say maybe the SBC would be the best route for now. But my Mopar bias just couldn't write down the words in my post. Glad to hear you say it first......did it hurt???

Do others agree with putting a SBC as the easiest route?

 

Hey....thank you for posting these pictures. They are great!

 

This arrived today from a fellow HAMBer. I think it is a 72 reissue of the original 59 version.

Let the learnin' begin....

 

The motor is set down and back further than needed, I was after a nice handling truck.

 

I vote to put that damn Hemi in that '38 Plymouth. ain't a better situation that what you have right here for an AWESOME street rod!

 

528-Hemi. You need to go to this guys house with your knowledge and help him with his car. We all would like to see the Hemi in there , but we do not want to see a half done cobbled up mess for sale in the want ads because he got frustrated ,ran out of money and gave up.
If you do put a sbc in the car at least paint it Mopar blue.

 

personally I wouldn't put in a bellybutton SBC. Too many have them, boring. Where it is set up for SBC that would mean rear sump set up. Dodge Pick Ups & Vans are rear sump. Older ones with 318s or 360s tend to be reasonably common & cheap. As was said, they tend to be easily installed vs a 440 or 392. Of course the 392 can be converted to rear sump using a '55 331 or '56 354 pan & O/P.

 

Agreed!! Believe me I don't want that either. Thus this thread and questions before making any rush decisions. I want to do right by this car and engine. ( By the way - still haven't closed the deal on the car. Waiting for some last info from the seller. Barring any surprises it is a done deal ).

If any members are really interested in helping me out, I would love to talk to experienced guys that have done this work and can help me with building out a "realistic" plan for the first 8 - 12 months. If you have sometime to share your knowledge and have a few laughs, please start a conversation with me and we can set up a call.

So if you could help me start with the " Beginning of a Build". If you could focus on the first 8 months that takes us till the end of the year. What would you do with the following items and budget.

1. So let's say for the remainder of 2017 you are starting with this car ( 38 Plymouth, Fatman Mustang II front, 9in rear, boxed frame, frame needs cleaning up, rust free body, excellent floors, dash/gauges great condition, needs interior). Car will keep the original paint. No body work. Would like to use full hood and fenders.

2. Drive train - 392 Hemi built by owner of an engine shop for his personal car who has sinced passed away and verifying work and specs with him is now impossible. Engine choice still up in air.

3. You have the car, Hemi, and have an additional $5000 cash for this year. More cash in 2018 but for now just $5K. Where is it best to spend the limited money?

4. Dealing with inexperience - I signed up for a welding class starting August but right now I don't weld. Basic mechanical skills. NO fabrication experience. Neighbour is a welder and metal worker by trade and has offered to help out but has never built a car. His shop is 1 house down from my garage. Fully stocked garage for working on muscle cars, compressor, tools of all kinds, but no lift, no press, no metal working tools.

5. Space - I have space for 3 cars in my garage but two spaces are taken. Only one single garage door. I put the cars on dollies and move them around the garage. So I have just a single space to do the work. Might be able to find storage for body while working on frame.

6. Help - I have a friend that builds race cars and engines. He can help out occasionally just don't want to drive him nuts.

So what should the first 8 months look like?

Again if anyone is up for a call that would be great!

 

It should fit. I put a 331 in my 36 Dodge pickup, and I think a 392 is only an inch wider. Your 38 Plymouth probably has more room...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I did have to trim the fenders a little, and leave the hood sides off, but it fits. Stock frame, suspension, and steering.



Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Just say NO to the small block Chevy.

A car that is dissembled takes up a lot of room, if it all has to sit inside, it will take up all 3 of your garage stalls, if you intend to work on it. You will need enough space to have the body on the frame with a cherry picker holding the motor, and have enough room to push the car (or the cherry picker with the motor hanging) back far enough for the motor attached to the cherry picker to sit on the floor in front of the car (that would be 8-10 feet in front of the car). You also need room on both sides to be able to get under the car or reach over the sides. I work out of a 24 x 24 garage, and the car parts not in use that day sit outside, plus if I'm pulling a motor, that is done on my driveway. There is not enough ceiling clearance to lift a motor off a frame (with no front sheet metal) with my 8' ceiling. Things can be done in tight spaces, but there are times when the project will move outside, and the entire garage space is occupied with a car in pieces for a 2-3 day stretch.

A small block Mopar will fit where a sbc will fit. The Chevy mounts are just brackets on the frame, you would need frame brackets for any motor you put in there. The only difference between the sbc and the sb Mopar will be the brackets on the motor, and the Mopar engine brackets are easily modified. The oil pan has already been addressed.

I would find a running (and driving) old Dodge pickup and hijack the motor & trans. It will also provide several other little things that kill a budget. If you can make arrangements for the old truck to sit close by for a few months where you can pull stuff as you need it, it will prove to be a life saver. You can buy just a motor and a trans, but the other things you will need add up pretty fast. The little things add up faster then the big ticket items. The cost of the motor, trans, and car body are about 1/3 of what your going to have in a good driver car, and a 3-5 year build is not unusual.

At some point you will have to determine if you want fuel injection or a carb. A carb is more simple and cost effective, IF the donor is carbed, if the donor is fuel injected, the injection may be more simple and cost effective. Ignore the guys that will tell you that carbed motors are better and cheaper, car manufacturers haven't installed carbs since 1989. If you don't have any, starting out new is pretty expensive on a motor that wasn't designed for them.

If the donor runs well and doesn't display signs of a worn motor & trans, I would use them as they are, for now. (That would mean to look for a donor with a good drive train.)

I'm not trying to discourage you, but since you have no experience, I'm sharing some of mine with you. Gene

 

Good info from Gene and others here. Check out http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/. They have good quality stuff and a universal application section with engine and tranny mounts. If you sell the hemi you will have well over $10K for this years efforts. You can get a Chrysler crate motor, long block, from Jegs for $4200 here, http://www.jegs.com/i/Blueprint-Engines/138/BPC4082CT/10002/-1. Chrysler 408ci Stroker Base Engine 375HP/460TQ. You will need other parts for it but heck, you are selling a hemi which should easily pay for the engine and extra parts you need. Have your racer builder help you pick a tranny and then start by fitting the engine/tranny assembly in the frame. Once that is done you should start from the bottom up: Get all the mechanicals, brakes and suspension working as they should. Then complete the engine/tranny systems completed as son on. You have to come up with a plan. Also, don't get overwhelmed with the whole project. Break the project up into phases. And try to do something every day or few days, even if it is the most insignificant task. You'll get the satisfaction of completing something which will give you the boost you need to continue. And ask questions, especially here and of your few local buddies that know what they are doing. Good luck.

 

Out of curiosity I checked craigslist for the US side around Montreal and found a good number of potential car/truck donors. Looks like you guys have a 'rust' problem out there....
Although a new crate engine would be sweet, a decent runner, for a few hundred, would allow for other work to get done. Do not discount the value of the multitude of small parts that a donor will provide.
With the availability of wiring harnesses for some of the newer computer controlled 'everything', even a late Mopar 4.7 Magnum would be a nice install and have plenty of power for the project.
Check out Hotwire

.

 

Yep....welcome to Quebec Rust Are Us! Very little usable stuff up here and the good stuff is way over priced. That is why this body is such a rare find. It was kept in a heated garage for 30 years.

 

A stroker for a 1st time project? As far as a Mopar crate motor a buddy who was living in Chicago bought one of them & had some sort of a PITA involving a mod to the Torque Converter, even with all the shops there.

 

See, so many want to make the project complex and expensive. You don't need a stroker small block to go for Ice Cream or a ride through the park. You probably don't need one to have a lot of fun with that 38 Plymouth either. I suggest you keep it simple, with a pretty much stock motor. I put a 120K mile 3.9 V6 with a 5 speed in my 48 Plymouth coupe when I built it 6 years ago (the motor has 157K miles on it now). Its great fun, and pretty cheap to drive. I can smoke the tires, get rubber in 2nd gear, and get 17 mpg in town, while doing it. The modern V6 has as much power in factory trim (more in some cases) then the old smaller V8s had.

Rusty body donors are a great starting point! Many have low miles and excelent drive trains. You don't need the body, you want the drive train and a bunch of little stuff, and rust won't have much effect on the parts you will need. Buy something that is complete and runs & drives (or could be driven if brake lines were not rusted through). www.hotwireauto.com makes a great stand alone wire harness to install a fuel injected motor into an old car, its not cheap, but it works.

There are a lot of great Mopar donors out there, but some of the modern motors had some issues. I would not build a car with a 4.7 V8, a 3.7 V6 or a 2.7 V6 motor. Gene

 

Guys, I was only using the crate motor as an example of what could be bought out there. And besides, it is a big step down from a 392 Hemi!! LOL I agree with keeping the motor simpler with a stock motor or close to it since you probably wont be racing or anything like that. It makes maintaining the car that much easier.

 

Hemi

 

UPDATE - (A Very Shitty One)

The car is located in the province next to me. So when bringing a car in from out of province it has to be inspected before you can register it to be on the road.

I just found out today that a new law passed where they will not certify a car, or make near impossible, to register a car that has any modifications to suspension of any kind. Regardless of age of vehicle and if suspension is actually safer than original! This one has a FatMan front end. Non admissible.

F@&$&@&@@@$&&!!!

So anyone looking for a pretty sweet deal - the owner only wants $7500 CDN which is less than $5500 US with the exchange rate. Send me a note and I will send you the contact info if you are interested. Salt of the earth nice elderly gentleman selling the car. He is 75 years old still works construction every day as a welder.

On the positive note I found a really nice 56 Dodge Hardtop today which hopefully will bring me better luck and bring me into the HAMB fold....it has 251 flathead six...and I know a 392 will fit in there! Stay tuned for Round 2.

My sincere thanks to all that helped me. You guys are awesome.

 

BUMMER! At least you have a good attitude about it. Good for you.

 

PM me with the info. Have a soft spot for those early Mopar's . Tried to find my old car with no luck.
Had to sell it during a divorce and looked for ever since.

 

There is a Thread on www.forwardlook.net from a few years ago on putting a Hemi in one.