Hot Rods Muncie vs t-10 4 speed

I'm looking for a 4 speed Trans for a 55 chevy 2 door wagon.my plan is a 327 mild built engine to cruise in with occasional pedal mashing. Which Trans is better,a muncie m20,21,22 or a Borg Warner t-10 ? Any other suggestions ideas ?

 

My money is on the Muncie since it was built to handle muscle cars and evolved past the t10 which was a darn good tranny in its time frame...IMHO....

 

M-20 is wide ratio, 21 is close and the M-22 is close ratio with a different helix angle on the gears to make it a bit stronger, but they make a noticeable howling noise. It is said that T-10's have an issue popping out of 2nd gear, but it's never happened with the one I run. There was the original T-10 introduced in 1957 or '58 and then the Super T-10 with some refinements introed in the '70's sometime. For the kind of driving you mention I'd go with a wide ratio transmission, first gear will be 2.52 compared to 2.20 in a close ratio box.

 

All Chevy application 4 speeds prior to 1964 were the T-10, including the high h.p. 409's.
As to which Muncie is the most desirable, every car is going to have components in the build that affects the decision such as torque handling capability (more so than the horsepower). The Muncie M20 is the better choice if the rearend gears are numerically lower, such as 3.08's, as it has a 2.56 first gear as compared to the M21's 2.20 first gear. Much easier to get the car rolling even in everyday driving. This is especially true if the car is on the heavy side.
In my opinion, the Richmond Super T10 is the best deal (when bought new) considering the hidden issues when buying used T10's and Muncies. Richmond offers quite a few gear spread options by part number and each one has its torque handling specification.
Ultimately the intended usage of the car and its components dictate the decision.

 

The M20 is a "small pin"[countergear] case ...M21-22 have the larger pin...M22's are made of unobtanium , not worth what they bring IMO... Put an iron mid-plate in an M-21 & you've got a decent tranny , "super" T10's are good too...Aftermarket "super case" Muncie's are pricey but extremlt durable.....you can find varying ratios in all muncies

 

Best bet, Super T-10, 2.64 1st.
Muncie is not stronger than anything, besides a Saginaw.
You can get a steel case for T-10's. Sychros and gears are the same size as Muncies.
T10 has a simpler and better side cover design.

 

I've had all the "GM" 4 speeds; Saginaw's, Muncie's, Borg Warner's, they all have their place. You can't beat the Saginaw for available gears ratios, but you also can't "beat" it. The Muncie and Borg Warner aluminum cases are both suffering from age; they've been around so long, and beat on for so long, that they are mostly worn out. I had an older T-10 rebuilt in the late 70's, and it cost me $800.00 back then (jumping out of third on deceleration), and still did't work right. The T-10 was also used by all the major auto makers at one time or another. The Muncie case is the weakest point, and the counter gear shaft wallows it out; there's an aftermarket Muncie case that addresses that, and is overall, a much stronger case. IF I had a choice placed in front of me, all known to be good transmissions, a Saginaw, a Muncie, and a Borg Warner T-10..........................I'd probably pick the T-10. I also like the fact you can easily buy a brand spanking new Richmond/Borg Warner Super T-10 in whatever ratio you want. In the 56 Sedan Delivery there is a Muncie, but when the current 327 finally comes out, and the new 327 goes in, so will a Borg Warner Super T-10 with a 2.64 first gear; that engine/clutch/bellhousing/transmission are bolted together and waiting. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

Looks like markyac and I were typing at the same time. Same opinion just the same.

 

Richmond Super T-10 specs.
Note: L.H. column part numbers are for roadrace transmissions.

 

Good advice on going with the super t10 for strength and value...

 

Wow great advice by all. I do have a lead on a super t10 also. Hmm decisions decisions.

 

GM issue or Richmond?
If someone says it's totally rebuilt believe only half what they say.
BTW, if you go with the Muncie or T-10 make sure to use gl-4 rated gear lube.
Don't use gl-5 in older transmissions, been known to degrade brass parts.

 

Ran a super t-10 behind a 430 Buick in my 55' stude. Beat the snot out of it in that car, about 450 HP. Worst that ever happened was a broken syncro. Other than that, never had an issue with it.

 

The Super T10 is more-or-less the same as a early T10 (most parts will interchange if done as 'assemblies') but has much-improved syncros; the early syncros were the reason they were noted for popping out of gear.

You might consider the Ford Toploader too; as strong or stronger than either the 'lighter' Muncies or T10s, this was a pretty common swap at one time. I believe you can still get a SBC scattersheild with both GM and Ford patterns...

 

I have a vintage Super T-10 for sale. I am the original owner (bought it over the counter back around the end of the 1960s, when they first came out, it was one of the first sold over the counter). It is a 2.43 close ratio unit, and has been in indoor storage since 1972 when I removed it from the car it was in (50 Plymouth with a stock 283). Includes the original Hurst shifter. Let me know if you are interested.

 

Plym49 pm with particulars and your location.

 

Gman0046 that's a sweet combo . I was thinking of running 3:50 gears but the 55 is a heavy girl,might help to run 3:70s ?

 

It's a Gm t-10 $600 .

 

PM sent..................

 

Just to be clear, the SUPER T-10 did't come out until the later 70's, 74-82 specifically; 26 spline input shaft and a TH400 sized output shaft. Anything different that that is just a "regular" T-10; that transmission began being used in 1957 by GM; it was phased out with the arrival of the Muncie 4-speed, until the beefed up and improved versions started showing up in 1974, the Super T-10 (Super Power Brute T-10 was the actual name). I guess that would make the "regular" T-10, a "Power Brute T-10". I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

I've run both in my 327 powered four speed '57. The 3.5 I have now works well enough from a dead stop and is a little better at highway speeds. The 3.7 would still be a good choice, not much of a noticeable difference with what you plan to build.

 

I have an early M20 in my Ford with the 2.56 1st gear. I'm going with a 3.89 rear and it was pretty peppy with the OG 3.56 rear. The wide ratio works out well for me too. The Super T10 is what I'd choose with cost not being a factor.

 

I am not sure that is correct. By 'come out' do you mean offered from the factory in a built automobile? That may not be the same as when the units became commercially available over-the-counter for individual purchase. Maybe the difference is how long it takes to ramp up production, I don't know. But I do know that I purchased a 2.43 close-ratio Super T10 over the counter - a unit called 'the first one sold in this city' by the Speed Shop owner - and I recall that being in the very late 1960's; the vehicle I put it in went into long-term storage by 1972.

 

My 40 had a T -10 in it when I got it back in the late 70's. The car appeared to have a lot of late 50's early 60's GM donor stuff in it. Here are the numbers on my trans. Any of you T-10 Guru's have any info on it?

 

April 62 casting date, possibly destined for the 63 Chevys, guessing one of the last T-10's put in Chevys as they were gearing up for replacing the T-10 with Muncie transmissions.

BTW, if anyone stumbles onto a GM T-10 with a Ford spline pattern input shaft there's a good chance it's the T-10 I replaced in my 57 BelAir when it started popping out of gear.

 

In a car/various auto brands/aftermarket suppliers, a T-10 is a T-10; a Super T-10 is a Super T-10. Info is on the net, and in other threads here on the HAMB. The 26 spline input and TH400 sized output DEFINE a Super T-10. What are the case and extension housing part numbers, and production date on your trans plym49? If your trans has a 10 spline input and 16 spline output, and it's for a GM application, it's just a T-10 that was available over-the-counter at GM dealerships, and sold as a Brute Strength, or Super Brute Strength T-10. That's where the confusion is coming from.. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Whats a good price for both at a swap meet?

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I bought my super t-10 for 300 from the old dude that runs the bbq joint down tha road. I consider that a damn good price, its been refreshed and never used since.

 

$1.00

 

Muncie 4 speeds usually have a 6-700 $ price tag on them at the swaps here. Not that guys are fighting over 'em at those prices, but they do sell.