California member here and have a VIN question. I plan on going to the CHP office next week but thought I would see if anyone here had encountered my situation before and could offer some advice. I have a 1930 Model A coupe with a CA title. Sometime during it's life it was brought to California and a new title was granted using a number that California generated (CAxxxx). This was because the original engine had been replaced by a motor manufactured at the Richmond Ford plant (RFxxx) and nobody bothered to raise the body to get the correct VIN number. I am now planning to replace the frame with a 32 frame and would like to sell the original 30 frame. In an effort to stay legal what is the correct way to handle the sale? I obviously cannot sell the frame with a title so should I sell it with a bill of sale and leave the frame number intact? Or should I (if legal) grind the number off the frame and sell the numberless chassis with a bill of sale? My concern is that a future owner might try to title it with the number on the frame and I'll be dragged into a legal problem. I'm afraid that the state of California would look at it like I tried to construct two vehicles from one frame. I might be confusing the situation but would appreciate any advice from anyone who has encountered this before. TIA, Tony
If your car is titled with the CHP issued #, the original Ford # on your 'A' chassis isn't even connected to you...or the Coupe for that matter. I believe (in California) if a car hasn't been registered in somewhere between 7 to 10 years, and hasn't been reported stolen, it isn't in the DMV computers. Don't grind the number off, just sell it with a bill of sale. The new owner can then have the original Ford # searched in the DMV data base, and if not in use, can use it to register a Model 'A' body & chassis. In California, any assembled car on the 'A' chassis would have to be 'verified'. For this the car has to be reasonably complete; body, chassis, engine and drive train. It doesn't have to run. The car could be verified and registered Non-Op while the restoration is done. Then when ready to be put on the road, registration fees and proof of insurance will be required.
Thanks for the info sanfordsotherson, the way you explain it makes it crystal clear. I think baring any contradictory information, that I will go the route you recommend. Thanks again, Tony
Yup, keep the CA issued VIN with the car. Sell the frame, with the number on it, with a bill-of-sale, showing that number. Where in CA are you? I am always looking for A frames, with valid numbers, and a legal paper trail.
I agree, sell the frame with the original number intact. It will be more desirable with it. That number has no connection to you, or any particular car most likely, as far as the states concerned. However, is the assigned number attached /stamped on the frame? That will obviously need to be removed upon sale, and then you will have to determine how to attach to the new frame. Current CA assigned VINs are a separate tag stuck to the frame as I understand it, so not sure you can easily transfer that. If the new numbers on on the body, then not an issue
It will depend on where they put the tag. Most of the ones I have seen were on the body, on the b-pillar.
Thanks guys appreciate the information. I haven't found a tag with the 'new' state issued VIN yet, but I'll keep looking as it will have to be removed and placed on the new frame. Tony
You will be looking for something like this: It is a self-adhesive metal plate, that is also riveted, and then over-stamped on the lower left and right corners. In other words, it is very tamper-evident.
Thank you B Ramsey and Gimpyshotrods, hopefully the 'new' vin is riveted on the body somewhere and not on the frame. If I find it on the frame I'll talk to the DMV about my options for a new tag. Tony
Yep, don't mess with that assigned tag. Once you find it, you may have to take your car, your new frame and all your paperwork to the DMV or whoever they designate (CHP in my case) and have the tag swapped by the authorities. If you remove it yourself, you've opened a real can of worms.
Well, let's hope that it is on there somewhere. If it is not, you have nothing to link your paperwork to this car, and have a much bigger problem.
While we're on the subject of CHP issued tags on built rods.....say one was done in the 50's by the CHP by the guy that built it....it went into non- op into the 60's - got signed off mid 60's and is most likely in op at this time....where could you start with out that CHP/DMV # ? I have the license plate #'s from early 50's and the later 50's orange tag....it should have gotten the black plate when the ownership changed mid 60's......HELP !
Not if his model A frame is stamped with a ca-XXXX factory number... Then its a Canadian frame. California has nothing to a do with it. on a side note... numbers are no substitution for knowledge...
I believe that in that era, the authorities would have stamped the numbers in. I'm not sure where, though.
Hell no. It has been raining about 6"/day. We have already had an average season's worth of rain, and we still have more than two months to go.
Thanks Gimpys.....it's a long shot I know....will be in Sacramento soon and always want to go down to the DMV....still thinking the car is in a garage somewhere or maybe someone has it and doesn't know the history....thought it was kinda odd in 1950 to take a car down for the CHP to stamp a vin on it after he built it....
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