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Technical hard to get into gear

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by aircoup, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    ok ,ive bled the clutch no more air , still cant get into gear , ive put 3.8 quarts as what ive seen recommended of mercon ?
     
  2. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,314

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Whats your set up,
    Are you saying hard to get in gear because pressure plate is not releasing clutch disc completely ?
    Throw out bearing in wrong locatin or wrong for pressure plate ,
    wrong fork, wrong slave cylinder, ( stroke to short )or defective .
    Wrong Pedal stroke .
     
  3. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    ok its a 302 ford with a m5r2 5 speed hydraulic clutch already bled , yes it acts as if its not releasing
     
  4. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,314

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    To be honest , it all need to be check!! I know that's the answer you don't want to hear :(but that's how it goes with hot rod's.
     

  5. If your opening statement is all your giving us getting help is going to be tough. I'm way Old and not up on new Shit meaning m5r2. Bring us up to speed here. I know 302's and done lots of clutch pedal adapt's. May be a number of small issues or one big oops. Did the tranny in question come stock behind your 302? What have you done? Is your bell housing open on the bottom?
    The Wizzard
     
    HiHelix likes this.
  6. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    ok gotcha pist-n-broke yes its newer a 98 in fact and it did come with this newfangled 5 speed , i just got this running
     
  7. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,415

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    have someone push the pedal to the floor while you watch, is it actually moving all the way?then when its all the way back what clearance from thrust bearing to the pressure plate?
     
    HiHelix likes this.
  8. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    ok sounds like what needs to be done , as soon as the water receds a bit theres a half inch puddle under it today of rain water come in under my door lol
     
  9. 57Custom300
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,424

    57Custom300
    Member
    from Arizona

    I recall when Ford first started install hydraulic clutches that occasionally the clutch wouldn't release because the pedal stroke was too short. Don't remember if there was a recall for it. We usually trimmed the stop on the pedal for a longer stroke.
     
  10. I have a hydraulic clutch in my Ford. It took a bit of work to get a long enough stroke at the clutch fork. Most slaves have around a 1.25" max stroke and you need around 1" at the fork. Do you have an adjustable rod between the fork and slave? That can make a difference. Eliminate any slop in the chain of parts, this can eat into the effective stroke.
     
  11. I do not know why, but them ford hydraulic throw out bearings are a real bitch to bleed.
    You'll think you got it but you don't, then you'll swear you got it but you didn't.
    There's some shops that won't even touch them because of it.

    There's one way that seems wrong but it works better.
    2 people- open bleeder,, push pedal down,,close bleeder,, release pedal,, repeat.
    Having the drivers side jacked up 10" or so higher than the passenger side helps too.
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  12. I have seen a few times in the past where a builder has power washed, cleaned good enough to paint then let a motor/tranny sit for years during the build where the clutch disc actually rusts and sticks to both the flywheel and pressure plate. Even though all the mechanical movement was correct the disc would not come free. This is why I asked if your bell housing is open on the bottom. The old ones were and we could actually look up inside and see what was going on.
    The Wizzard
     
  13. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,709

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As I was reading this I thought of the same scenario that Pist-n-Broke envisioned. I had that very thing happen many years ago. I couldn't figure out what was wrong so I pulled the transmission and found that it had rusted together (in a dry garage). Later on the same thing happened so I just kicked the transmission into neutral, started the engine and operated the clutch a few times, that fixed it. If you have already tried that and it didn't work you can say, "that old fart didn't know very much":)
     
    aircoup likes this.
  14. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,799

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can check the gap with feeler gauge. On full bell housings I use a cut off wheel to make an opening at the edge of the flywheel where I can get the feelers in. If it has a bottom m panel you can take it off and do it there while someone is stepping on the pedal.
     
  15. If you get the PP in the right spot and remove the starter you can get your finger in to the disc. Maybe a small mirror also. What I've done the last few times is put in 3rd gear with someone holding the clutch pedal in and rock the vehicle hard front to back. they both broke free and were fine. Another option for a full bell is a 1.5" hole saw to the bottom of bell, you can fine many types of snap in plugs to close it off with.
    The Wizzard
     
    bobss396 and 31Vicky with a hemi like this.
  16. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 5,373

    Fordors
    Member

    With a full bellhousing a well placed 3/4" hole will allow you to get a feeler gauge in there to check for full disengagement. If yours is a typical late Mustang diaphragm type pressure plate you only need .030-.040 air gap. Too much gap could damage the diaphragm spring.
    Try to determine how much free play you now have to the throw out bearing, and think about lengthening the rod from the slave just a bit. If the disc air gap is too tight now and you make the rod longer the t/o will contact the fingers sooner and release the disc more.
    bobss396 mentioned an adjustable rod on the slave to fork. I'd try that and while I don't know measurements of your fork keep in mind 1/8" on the rod might (for example) only be .040 movement on the t/o bearing end.
     
  17. Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
    HiHelix, wraymen and aircoup like this.
  18. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    this does have a inspection hole , it is hydraulic meaning it has the slave on the shaft that pushes on the pressure plate ive watched it depress the pressure plate and release it but im thinking its not going all the way back to fully release for some reason im thinking from sitting yes possibly im going to wd40 it and see if i can manually move it back n forth just another thought thanks guys
     
  19. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    im confused on pedal stroke it only depresses the rod so far into the resivoir. not much maybe 2 inches
     
  20. Sounds like you have a complete factory package. Things should work but are not. It's not a mix-n-match issue so what else could cause it? If your package came with a roller bearing instead of a bronze bushing in the end of the crankshaft it could be frozen to the input shaft. That means the disc and PP could be doing there job but the input shaft is still turning with the crank. Close to sounding like you may be taking things apart for a look see.
    The Wizzard
     
    Atwater Mike likes this.
  21. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    damnit !!
     
  22. Before you grab a fist full of tools and slide under, let me ask a question. Since you have owned the Truck or known of the Truck has it ever been able to move it under it's own power? If so what has changed?
    The Wizzard
     
  23. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    yes ive known it , all thats happened is ive put this running gear in my 56 , the engine and trans were separated and clutch and pp were removed for inspection and remated , something mustof been overlooked in that process im thinking now , but its a issue of just not releasing far enough so im thinking its together correctly hoping just sticky of course lol
     
  24. Another issue I found once. Flywheel to Crank bolts "MUST" be of stock Ford profile. Factory bolts have a short head. Hardware store #8 bolts have a tall head. If they are used the bolt heads will grab the springs in the disc and keep the disc from turning freely. Inocent mistake but a big problem in the end.
    The Wizzard
     
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  25. yruhot
    Joined: Dec 17, 2009
    Posts: 564

    yruhot
    Member

    I went through this with my model A. tried using aftermarket hydraulic throw out bearing and couldnt get enough action out of the bearing. unit came with shims to adjust throw out pedal free play. had to pull tranny each time to add shims, still couldnt get right. went down to auto parts store got generic slave cylinder. made up custom mounting bracket used grade 8 fin thread bolt. cut off head and made push rod. Also got new bearing fork and stock chevy bearing. adjusted clearance on bolt and have never looked back. not a fan of hydraulic throwout bearings. Hope this helps.
     
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  26. aircoup
    Joined: Aug 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,030

    aircoup

    thats what im thinking is needed now is a new slave cylinder release bearing unit i used the old one didnt see why not at the time ,,,,,,,
     
  27. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Take a breather. Never look at the worse of things. Go back and read what 31Vicky is saying before taking anything apart. Remember if you fix 5 things at 1 time and 1 works great. But which one ! ?
     
    aircoup likes this.
  28. Yep and the don't forget the FORD TSB for "clutch that won't release problem"
    You going to have to open the links and read them. It covers both external slave and hydraulic throw out bearing Slave.
    Plenty of the materials cover the pedal ratio, full retraction of the pedal rod, even shimming the clutch master away from the pedal, special bushings. Lots there with pictures. Lots of talk on ford truck forums and mustang forums too. It's all there
     
  29. Another thing here-
    I'm still unclear in this thread ( I shouldn't be but I am for some reason) but I think this Trans is from a 1997 truck with a hydraulic throw out bearing. That means it's from a f250/350. And Not a f150 If the (again not clear) Trans and engine came together that may also explain the firing order issue from @ aircoupe 's previous thread with a 1996 302 from a f150 that wouldn't start. The f150 has an external slave the f350 has a hydraulic throw out bearing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  30. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,816

    BJR
    Member

    Don't know if this was said on an earlier post, but if the clutch disc is in backwards it will lock the clutch up also.
     
    aircoup likes this.

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