I need some help. I have a Harwood bodied 32 that I`ve had just over a year. When I purchased the car I was given very little info. The seller had purchased the car about 80% complete and finished it, but had no info. Even though I`ve been a gear head all my life I`m new to the 32. While crawling under the car I found what appears to be a crack in the frame on both rails just behind the front spring cross member. This is a boxed frame. Is there a way to ID who`s frame it is? The crack`s are on the bottom inside edge. Its painted and I haven`t taken the paint off yet. I`m guessing the welds on the boxing plates have given up or they were ground too thin. Has anyone seen this? Any help would be appreciated and advice as far as a repair. I`ll try to get some pics soon
I have the same problem at I am quite sure it is as you said. Welds ground down to thin. I fixed one side just by taking a Dremil tool and grinding a groove where the crack is and welding it up with a Mig welder. I'll do the other when I get around to it.
Yea grind it out and fill it up! Mig is fine but, I like to TIG the cracks so I can see that complete fusion for the critical weld
This whole conversation is why I like to "step box" frames -- set the boxing plates inside the rails about 1/4" - allow yourself a good weld without having to grind on it to make things look good. It is a lot harder to fit the plates so that the welding gaps are what they should be, but the end result is typically a lot stronger. Just my opinion. The picture below is the frame for my 34 coupe - TIG welded. In retrospect, would have been easier if I stepped the plates back about 3/8" - would give me more to work with and make it easier to control the heat without burning the edge. The welds below were a bit tricky - had to really stay close to the work and 'pedal it' a lot.
Why would it matter who's rails they started out as? Further more who ever built the chassis most often don't stand behind the work to a second hand owner. If the builder couldn't do a quality fit/weld job the first time I sure wouldn't take it back for more of the same quality for repair. The Wizzard
It doesn`t really matter as far as the crack`s go, I was just curious if it could be identified for future reference. And I agree I wouldn`t give them a second chance.
Has the boxing plate cracked from the rail or is the stamped rail cracked? If it's the plate you might be ok, if it's the rail then it's probably hardened from being too hot. That would worry me. I don't think a frame needs to be fully boxed. Henry let em flex and they held up really well. As to the "...a stock motor with no horsepower..." argument, what were the roads like? Like a torture test, that's what. Just thought I'd throw that out there to consider, maybe you can rethink how it was done and perhaps do your own thing to prevent it from happening again. Good luck with the fix, I hope all goes well.
I haven't stripped the paint off yet but that's some good input. I`ll keep it in mind when starting the repair. Thank you
Without photos of the crack I think we all have our own vision of your issue. It's very possible it could be just a spot that didn't get clean enough for the primer/paint to bond and be just a shrinkage crack in the paint product. Wouldn't that be grate? The Wizzard
I ment to add if it were here I gently scrape the split in the paint and get out the Magnaflux tool and find out. The Wizzard
Were the rails boxed first and the front crossmember welded to them, or is the crossmember installed inside the rails like Henry built them? That would make a big difference to me. Bob
That is a good point - if built like Henry did, then I'd be less concerned - if the cross is welded to the boxing plates, then more concerned.
A pic would be nice. I have repaired enough cracked frames to say this, sometimes a frame just cracks. Weld it, keep an eye on it for a while. If it doesn't crack again in the first season of driving then don't worry about it. It will probably never crack again.
I wouldn't call it a cracked frame.....it's actually a cracked weld. When the fabricator installed the boxing plates he put the boxing plates in and welded them. But he probably didn't put the plates "corner to corner". He probably put them in flush, and then when the weld was ground down too much of the weld gets ground off. Corner to corner gives the weld a place to penetrate, so when ground down less weld gets ground off.
Having fabricated piece that was ground clear though the welds when it was made (hasn't been installed) I'd say that is highly likely what happened with that frame. I'll say one thing the topic of the thread and Bored and Stroked's post and photos convinced me to step box my model A frame.
Step boxing is the way to go without lighting up that unsupported edge. I have a buddy with a '32 glass roadster, same problem with cracks in the welds. In his case the frame should have been made from heavier gauge material. I would be tempted to gusset or reinforce any welds that need to be done over and of course the old weld completely ground out.
I agree that at this point it really doesn't mater who fabricated your chassis but if your chassis was built by a company that is "state licensed" to fabricate cars there might be a number. The reason I mention this is because my chassis was built by now gone, Total Performance in CT and has a chassis number punched on the driver side frame rail just in front of the cowl. The chassis also came with all the paperwork I would need to license the vehicle, using this number.
just make sure you disconnect the battery and any ignition components before you weld on the frame.... anything electronic ignition related may burn up if you weld while it's connected.
Post a picture of the underside center crossmembers if it was a Harwood chassis you can tell by the center crossmember as Gary Harwood put a lot of tubing in the center I told him that if he put one more tube he would have a bird cage. On his chassis the brake pedal arm is made out of tubing.
Ditto the stepped boxing plate idea. We set our plates in about a 1/4 " on our 32 frame. I like the way it looks and you get a "shelf" effect to guide your brake, fuel lines and wires.....
FOr the next one and the next guy, Place an aluminum or copper heat sink up to the edge. 1/4 or 3/8 bar stock is plenty and flexible to follow the contours. Set it up right and you can walk the cup right down, if you happen to light up the edge, you won't loose it and can come back and dress it up. What easier and better to step it than fit it corner to corner trying to replicate a smoothie street rod tube rail.
NONE of the aftermarket frames can hold a candle to the steel Henry Ford made his frames out of. Its mild steel, weak and prone to cracking. The Ford frames are fine as-is. If you want to make it stronger, add cross-members.
Henry steel is by far the best, no question or debate. Trouble is that the frames don't last forever, they will rot away, they get bent and any other form of "unusable" you may want to add. So the next thing is a copy- pretty simple concept. Now an aftermarket "frame" isn't just steel is it? Nope, it's joints and fitting and usually welded by hand- hopefully skilled hands and eyes behind the hood. Preferably not drunk from the night before, or fighting with their old lady that morning. Sorry friend, a FRAME is much more than the quality of steel.
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