Technical New wagon...loses power on ANY incline?

Sounds good. I will check the NAPA next to where I work Thursday. If they don't have it, I will order it online Thursday before I leave work! All the NAPA stores here are starting to get bought out.

Other than Chevs of the 40s, where are other good places to look? Most places I have looked only go back to 55...
I did notice RockAuto has a few parts too!

I will be ordering new door gaskets for the old gal too. The ones on it appear decent, but they are coming loose and getting cut when door closes.

 

National Chevy Association has stuff!

 

The first thing to do is a Comression test- there's just no sense in doing anything without first knowing that the internals are ok. EVERY ounce of diagnostic effort could be a waist without a compression test first.



One of these things will tell you a whole bunch of stuff about your engine, fuel pump and exhaust. With a long hose and a set of hookups you can set this on the windshield and monitor while driving on the road - which is more important that what's happening in the garage.



One of these will be able to test for a lot of things, it sorta makes you smarter than the vacuum.

One interesting thing about old fuel lines, they can leak under vacuum (suck air) and not leak fuel. The IN side of the fuel pump is at local atmospheric pressure both inside and outside the line, it's equal. When the car is running the IN side of the pump has a lower pressure inside the line than outside the line, atmospheric pressure will go in any to fill the lower pressure if it can. The OUT side of the pump is under pressure when the car is running, the pressure SHOULD NOT be below the stated requirements of the carb while running, driving, climbing hills. Here again there's not much good that can be done without knowing and verified the fuel pressure. It's nincompoopery to expect a out put without knowing the input is correct first.

 

31Vicky with a hemi: Do I need both vacuum gauges- or just one or the other?

 

I think you're missing the whole point on why the fuel pump has the capability to produce a vacuum. Let's say it's raining and you're headed up a hill- when your throttle blades open the manifold vacuum drops. The wipers stop working because there's no manifold vacuum.
Same thing happens off a red light thru the intersection - wipers stop.

The neat thing about the fuel pump is this- at the very instant the throttle blades open and manifold vacuum drops ,,, the RPMs come up and the fuel pump works faster. If it has a vac capabilities it pulls vacuum at an increased rate for the wipers.

Manifold vacuum should not be headed to the fuel pump and the fuel pump shouldn't be trying to make a vacuum in the manifold. It should be isolated with some check valves.

 

If I were working on your car I'd be using both.
I wouldn't even begin without the first one that is BOTH a vacuum guage and a fuel pressure guage. That one is used for diagnostics.

The hand vac pump is used for isolated testing, like I said it makes you smarter, you'll find problems much quicker, and chase less ghosts.
less ghosts means less time, less money, less parts, less guessing.

 

I can guarantee I am probably missing it! lol The vacuum systems are all new to me and so I am trying to figure it out. The manifold line goes to the fuel pumps vacuum pump, and then the other line from the fuel pump vacuum pump goes to the wipers. Is this connected wrong then?

 

Are there specific brand gauges to look for for over others?

 

Good used American made gauges. Check your local hock shops & 2nd hand stores ...

 

I had my truck with the snowplow in my garage all summer. The exhaust pipe is a good foot off the ground. After the first snowstorm of the year I started it up and it was running rough. I drove it outside to run for a while and revved it up a couple of times. It started running better so I starting plowing snow. My dog kept digging in the snowbank where I just plowed. I got out to look and there was dog food in the snow. It was blowing out of the tailpipe when I'd rev it up.

 

Maybe someone has a vac schematic so there's no speculation.
I can't say what you have or do t have because I can't see it. From your explanation I'd say there's at least no one way check valves, and I still can't say that with any certainty. I'm not sure that you could explain the situation well enough without the gauge.

Try this.
Isolate !
Disconnect the vac line at the fuel pump,
Engine running - Hook the guage to the fuel pumps vac port- there should be vac there generated from the fuel pump.
Disconnect the guage from the fuel pump vac port and put it on the line previously disconnected- there should be no vac there because of a check valve.

When the one way check valves are in proper orientation and hooked up correctly both of these will be true - the wipers will work. When the throttle blades are ope

 

Some good info here. http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/308050/
Wipers used manifold vacuum assisted by fuel pump driven vacuum pump for cases when manifold vacuum dropped such as hard accelration or climbimg hills.If you plan to replace the vacuum wipers with electric or you enjoy your wipers stopping when accelrating or climbimng hills then you dont need the fuel pump with the added vacuum pump.

I agree with others that your hill climbing problem could be fuel starvation but it's good idea to check everything out since the car is new to you.

 

I can see by all your responses that you belong to the young order it on-line generation, and there is nothing wrong with that,but you have to know what you are ordering first. Now with that being said find yourself a good oldfashioned Napa or Carquest auto parts store tell them exactly what you ie:year make engine trans and they will no exactly what fuel pump,dist and whateverelse you need. and you will have it in your hand that day or the next.
now the you have gotten some execellant advice in these post so now put it to use.
1. check all fuel lines from carb to tank.
2. check dist to make sure it advancing properly.
3. check all vac hose and conn. although you said you have vac from carb to pump.
4.check exhaust for restriction pretty common prob on car that just gets started,run,and shut off.
one other thing that has not been mentioned these old inliners were notorious for the intake bolts and carb base to bowl screws coming loose.
Sorry about the long post. Not trying to bust your ass just trying to help. I have a feeling this is a car that was around when your grandfather was a young man. Tom ps a lot of these old chevy wagons have gruised rte 66

 

Having put a zillion miles on a 55 Belair with a 235 P/G . You should have enough power for normal highway driving. Try taking an air hose and blowing backwards toward the tank if it has a restriction
or a sock the air pressure will either blow a hole in the sock or dislodge any restriction. Put a fresh filter on it and try it.
Late timing ,wrong points gap, weak fuel pump are related to your issues. A 235 ,even a well worn
one will run down the road. I drove my 100k plus 55 from Fl. to Mi. and back over the smokies without much problem . Just put a quart of oil in every other tank of gas.
My dad drove a 59 Biscayne for 20 years and drove 70 mph 20 miles one to work.
All else fails try the Bon Ami hone job to get the compression back up. If you don't know what that is PM me and I will walk you through it.

 

Assuming it is still doing this, you have seen a multitude of things that could be causing this action. Before you get too far into the buckshot approach, find out what is causing it. Automotive buckshot is expensive. labor intensive and usually doesn't solve the problem.

Another cause for your problem is carburetor icing. I have had Chevy 6's ice up & die on the road. Icing is most likely in warm, humid climates. East Texas can be that. The cause is usually a stuck carb heat valve in the exhaust manifold blocking exhaust heat from getting to the base of the carburetor. Make it do its thing slowing down, quickly pop the aircleaner off & look down the carb & see of there is frost in the base. Quick, east, cheap. If there is, fix the exhaust valve.

Please, keep the Bon Ami out of the engine.

 

Engine Man .I can relate to that and its funny too.LOL.Bruce.

 

My friend's dad has all the gauges and said he would come help me check it out one day after work!

I have been trying to go through it with a fine tooth comb. Learning more about the 235 as I go. Thanks for the link!!

I AM an online generation guy(31), but it is because the local parts stores never have what I need. For an extra fee they will order the part and take 2 weeks to get it, when I can order the same part myself from the same site they do- cheaper, and it comes in about a week. All but one local NAPA has sold out around here and have not seen a carquest in years. Just went to that one NAPA store this morning and took 30 minutes with two people younger than me trying to figure out their system to tell me they dont have a fuel pump and it would have to be special order/ made to order because there isnt much call for those any more.... SO- I just ordered it online and should have it by the first of next week.

Dont be sorry about the length!!! I welcome all suggestions and ideas- learning about these cars is what reignited my passion for them! And yes- the car was around when my grandfather was young and when my dad (61) was a baby lol

Gives me encouragement that this engine is def still worth the time!

Havent thought about that- will def keep my eye out for it! Is the valve in the intake, or in the carb itself?

 

Bon Ami thing was to help rings seat in. Most common use (and need) for it was when chrome rings were used. Was a fix for early chevy v-8s, but I seriously doubt that's the problem here.

 

The valve is in the exhaust manifold just a bit above the exhaust pipe. It should have a bi-metal spring on it that controls the opening & closing. The pin in the center of the spring should turn freely. There is a valve inside that directs the exhaust up under the carb to maintain heat and a counterweight on the other side of the manifold.

How long after it wants to quit will it run again??

 

Hello David, Sorry you had problems with the old girl! Hopefully it will turn out to be something simple! Got a bunch of "thumbs up" bringing it down to you. Thanks for the feedback in the 'O Dex
Bill

 

Some more honest advice.

That's cars pretty nice looking I'd put money on it being something simple that needs replaced or just a minor tunning issue. A couple small issues can really make something feel very not right.

My advice? Read all this stuff and then go find someone that has been building cars for a long time. There is a trained ear aspect to trouble shooting for decades that is really great to have at your disposal.

It'll make this much quicker, you'll learn what your actually hearing and you'll gain a friend to call when you need an ear or extra hand.

There's lots of good guys on the hamb I'd bet there's one close who would be down to go for a drive in the wagon with you and help you figure it out. Lots of a tiny clues you probably don't even notice will probably give it away and you'll be back to motoring up those hills

 

One thing it's important to keep on hand at all times, but especially when troubleshooting a "new" old car is a good fire extinguisher. Old wiring, old "rewiring", dry rotted rubber hoses, flooding carburetors etc can offer up surprises. May not be an issue with this rig, but a lot of old trucks were parked outside and the heater box over time would fill up with leaves and acorns and twigs and shit. Many a pickup has been totally consumed by fire as a result of this. The blower motor lower speeds are controlled by wirewound resistor that gets red hot in operation.

 

OH OK. I thought it may have been a term I just missed. Thanks!

I will need to check that out. She will fire right up unless she sits for a day or two-then it takes a bit to get fuel going again which is easy- new pump coming to try. When she dies trying to go up too steep- she will fire right off again.

Thanks Bill! I had people honking for holding up traffic, then would wave or give a thumbs up when they sped around. People only were mad til they saw the old girl- then liked her! Thanks again for binging her to Texas!! My uncle in the picture there had already told all his neighbors it was his new car! haha

So far a friends dad said he would try to swing in and help with the vacuum and compression checks sometime after work this week or weekend. The few HAMBers I knew in this area have moved off. But always up to meet some new folks!

Heater core is bypassed. I havent even turned on the blower yet, but it has been garage kept by previous owner and is garage kept now as well. BUT- I DO have an extinguisher I keep in my driver that I will swap over when driving around. Better safe than sorry!!

 

Just to give you some idea of what a pain some little thing can be, take a look at this:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/235-6-cylinder-problems.301638/

First post & last post are the important ones.

Happy hunting.

 

It's obviously that "high altitude" Texas landscape, like the Colorado Rockies where the air gets so thin, engines don't run and have any power, unless they're tuned for that altitude. Oh wait a minute, there are't any hills, let alone mountains, in Texas (just kidding). When I was in Tyler, 82-84 for X-Ray School, I took a long trip one day. Saw a sign, "Mount Selman X miles ahea". It really was't more than just a bump in the road (I come from Alaska and the PNW, and here, a mountain is a mountain). Judging from the car and engine photos, it's a tuning issue.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

OK, so new fuel pump will be here by end of day tomorrow (hopefully). If so, I will try to get it on wagon tomorrow night or Sunday. My question: For Vacuum pump side- which is inlet and which is outlet? I have never seen the wagon with current setup working properly, so want to make sure which port is which. Not sure if the vacuum lines were hooked up backwards- if that could have damaged the diaphram on the currently installed pump? Here is a pic of the two ports towards front of car when mounted (pic of the fuel pump i ordered by the way).

 

Butch there are a few hills in East Texas especially going from Tyler down towards Beaumont but nothing that will cause any problems for a 235 that is tuned properly and I have to agree with you on that! It may well be a fuel delivery issue. Looks like the OP has one on the way. I hope this helps his issue!

 

Early on, you stated you had the '49 to '54 Chevy Repair Manual.
Read pages 6-88 to 6-90.
This specific fuel pump has a VACUUM ASSIST feature, meaning it will assist the poor wiping operation of the standard vacuum wipers, through the operation of the pump.
IF the vehicle has a vacuum leak, causing poor performance, this pump will not overcome the vacuum leak and fix your performance concern.
Click here to begin on page 6-88.
This is part of the GM / CHEVROLET Service Repair Manual.
Be certain to look at figure 112 on page 6-89 for your inlet / outlet ports.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1949_53/06engine/6_088.HTM

 

Several items are covered here.
One more bit of info on the fuel/vacuum pump, with illustration to solidify your thoughts on routing of vacuum hoses.
Look at illustration in (1) and read info in (2).
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/308050/

 

Also read the section on IGNITION. Might be somthing as simple as retarded timing, OR the vacuum advance is bad. You'll see in the book that there is TWO ways to adjust timing - the pinch-screw, and the Octane Slector. I like to FIRST set timing with the O-S on '0', time to the ball on the flywheel - loosen the pinch-screw enough to move the distributor to adjust. Next, with the pinch-screw TIGHT, loosen the O-S with a 1/2 wrench and adjust to 6-8 degrees.

Tell your buddy's dad to also bring a TIMING LIGHT! Easy thing to check, AND the vacuum gauge might reveal retarded timing as well. I have a method to set timing without the engine running OR the need for a timing light - I'll go into that later if need be!

Again, MAKE ONLY ONE CHANGE AT A TIME!!! Then go for a test run...