Hot Rods another solution to the title problems

Getting titles to the old cars we mess with is frequently a problem. It occurred to me that something I'm aware of might be of use to others. At first I was going to just post it to the Missouri section, but it can really be used by anyone.

When you find an old untitled car, you are usually going to use only part of it. To get registration on the finished vehicle you'll need paperwork on the major components, like a title. In Missouri you can get a junking certificate with only a bill of sale if it's over 25 years old. This can be used just like a title to assemble a hot rod or other car. In Missouri, and probably most other states, when you build your car you need a title on the body, frame, cowl or cab. A junking certificate will work just the same. It allows you to possess, sell, or use the parts, it does prevent you from registering that particular car again.

It's not well known, and your local license office probably won't have a clue, but it's done just the same as applying for a title, just check “junking certificate” and attach the bill of sale.

The statute is here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/30100002271.html

Cost is $2.50, no sales tax. The statute says you have to have a letter from the highway patrol stating they've checked the numbers and it is not stolen, but I have ignored that part and my applications went right on through. On a bigger note, it appears that if the local office sends something in, it goes through. I doubt they check much in Jeff City.

Everything I've said up to now is fact. This next is speculation, I haven't done it. I don't see any reason you couldn't use the same junking certificate to cover, say the body and frame, then add your motor and drive train, or other parts not needing titles, and complete the car, then getting it inspected just like you would any other home built hot rod. In other words, find a car in a field, get a junking certificate, then with a bill of sale for the other parts, add the motor, trim, interior etc, get it inspected just as you would any other home build.

I also don't see why a car in another state can't use this. If you live in a nearby state, just drive over to a Missouri license office. You'd have to have it sent to a Missouri address, but there is no requirement to be a Missouri resident, and unless the local office demands the letter from the highway patrol, there is no reason the car ever has to be here. Or if you live many states away, find a buddy here to get it for you. It really could save a lot of problems, and is far easier and cheaper than a bonded title or an abandoned vehicle title.

 

This won't work in South Carolina. HRP

 

I'm curious - they wouldn't consider the junking certificate to cover the body, or South Carolina doesn't do this?

You'd be wise to check first if it's another state than Missouri you plan to use it in.

 

Logic doesn't enter into DMV laws.^^^^^^

 

With what I went through in N.C., this junking title is not a consideration.

 

AMEN!!

 

If you are living in NC, best advice is not to purchase anything without a title. IMO.

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The only logic here at our local tax office is if the lady happens to be at her time of the month..like most women,they have NO logic during that period

 

You got that right !

 

ask 3 different DMV officials about a law and you'll get 15 different answers.
Ask the same 3 next week and you'll get another 15 different answers again

 

North Carolina and South Carolina are both nightmares when it comes to the DMV.

I have been dealing with the SCDMV for years and at one time there were ways to get around the lack off a title,they know all the tricks and have enacted laws to prevent you from using salvage certificates,bill of sales without a title is worthless.

After years of frustration dealing with the SCDMV I will not buy a car without a title...period. HRP

 

For whatever it's worth, you get a title just like any other, same form, it just has "Junking Certificate" printed at the top. If anyone wants to use this method and has concerns as to whether it would work for them, I'd be glad to send you a copy of one and you can ask before you do anything. I'm sure it won't work for everything everywhere, but it might be another avenue to help someone. Sure got me past the problem of using the cab off an old truck I have.

 

I always buy a vehicle, with a title that matches the numbers on the car. Never an exception for me.
No valid title work = no sale from me.
But that didn't stop my N.C. problems, when transferring a valid New Mexico title to a valid N.C. title.
N.C. does their "vehicle serial number inspection", by a STATE POLICE OFFICER, in a very backward manner.
After "passing" my "serial number inspection", my title work was tied up in Raleigh, N.C. "special title division" for FOUR WEEKS, as N.C. looked and looked for a stolen vehicle history.
Had I not called the capital to express my displeasure, after 4 weeks, I'm not certain where the title work would be today .... if any where.
The Missouri title approach would not work here, in N.C., for N.C. has enough difficulty getting a valid title exchange to work.

 

Here in Tennessee we can get a duplicate title for $10. There are many people here who also sell historical documents(titles)at very good prices. I've used purchased titles several times with no problems when I lived in New York. Any trip to the DMV in NY is a nightmare for anything. Prior to around 1970 New York didn't have titles, only transferable registrations and that can be a real problem.

 

All you folks who say they won't buy without a title, then don't waste your time coming to GA to buy a HAMB friendly car.
Beacause there is NO title on any car over 25 years old When I bought my '40 coupe in Ohio, I got an OH title with it. Took iy with me when I bought a tag, and the woman says " about all I can tell you to do with that is put it in a secure place, as we have NO WAY to issue a title for ANY vehicle more than 25 years old.
So I put the OH title in my safe deposit box, and I'm considering keeping all tag receipts on it so I can show a continuous path of ownership from time of purchase when it had a title.
In the unlikely event I were to sell this car to Danny or someone else in SC/NC, or other title strict state, wonder if this would help?
GA never had car titles at all till '62 and I think iy was even later than that in AL.

 

It should also be said that GA uses the issued license plate registration to serve as the non-existent GA title.
So, if the license plate registration numbers match the vehicle serial number, you're good to go.
That being said, when I brought an out-of-state (traditional-antique 25 plus years old) car and OHIO title to Georgia, in 2005, Georgia had no plan to inspect the car or its serial number.
I could have brought in a tank, they would have never known.
The Georgia DMV relied 100% on the information shown on my out-of-state OHIO title.
If the out-of-state title was correct, the correctness continued on the Georgia license plate registration.
If the out-of-state info was incorrect, the error lived on in Georgia.
Georgia DMV copied the info off my OHIO title, then returned the OHIO title to me.
Still have it saved for whatever.

 

In Pennsy if ya buy a car from out of state, from a state like Georgia that doesn't issue titles on old cars (or at all) ya need to show them a notorized bill of sale and then you need a VIN # tracing confirmed by a state inspection mechanic and then you will get a new pennsy title for your car.

 

Why would you want a junking cert if it prevents you from ever getting that VIN titled again? I don't understand.

 

No title on pre-1972 vehicles in New York and the registration lists a coupe as a sedan! NYS doesn't recognise coupes! Go figure............

 

Example #1. I have an old semi truck. I want to put the cab on a later model chassis. I have a title for the donor chassis, I have nothing on the old truck. To use that cab I must have a title (or title equivilent) when I get it inspected, and a new VIN issused for this combination. I can probably go to some effort and get a bonded title for the truck with the cab. Involves a lot of work, hauling it to the highway patrol for an inspection, buying a bond (hundreds of $) and maybe not getting it in the end. Or, take a bill of sale to the license office, give them $2.50 and have a junking certificate that accomplishes the same thing.

Or, you find farmer Brown who has an old (fill in the blank) that you want. It's been there for years and years. You're going to take it home and strip the body off, blast it, straighten it and put it on a modern (or store bought or whatever) chassis and make your hot rod out of it. To register it, at least in MO, you need a title for the body. Or a junking certificate. Title involves maybe getting the farmer to file for an abandonment title, or one of you getting a bonded title or some other costly, time consuming method. I'm sure there are other ways I'm not aware of. Or, take farmer Brown's bill of sale and $2.50 to the license office, and you're done.

Now, if you want to take that rusty hulk home and restore it and it's motor, chassis and all to it's former glory, this is not the method you want to use. I'm not trying to convince anyone it's what they need to do, I'm just making you aware of a method that might work for someone. I've gone to a lot of effort to get titles on a couple vehicles I brought home, that I knew I would never register as original, and spent a lot of time and money to have them documented so that down the road I would have what I needed to use either the frame or body. I wish I'd known I could just have taken a simple bill of sale to the license office and taken care of it.

This is just a slight addition that might help someone save a few bucks. If you buy a parts car and need to title it so that you can either get rid of it down the road, or more likely the seller wants it out of his name before he'll let you have it (you'd be dumb if you didn't get it out of your name if you're the seller, but that is a different thread) you can just check the box for "junking certificate" instead of "title" and pay $2.50 and no sales tax, instead of $12 and paying sales tax.

This probably says something about my boredom level, but reading the state laws (the real ones online, not some summery) can find a lot of little tricks not well known. I've spent boring evenings doing that and found other interesting things. It helps - my local license office has called me to find out how to solve a problem, since she knows I've researched it.

But, hopefully this answers your question.

 

My guess is it turns it into a "salvaged title" like an insurance company total then when you repair it you have to have it inspected with your receipts for repair to be able to register it .. It gets your foot in the backdoor by giving it paperwork to a vin I suspect

 

If I understand the Missouri DMV process, you can get a "junking certificate", build your vehicle, get plates, but cannot ever sell it to someone else. A dead end, regarding future sales. Is that correct ?

 

Salvage title, at least in Mo, is an entirely different animal. That can be turned back into a licensed, drivable vehicle. It would have to be inspected by the highway patrol, and nearly restored to pass their inspection. I've seen where they declined to pass them with a grill piece missing, a dent that your palm won't cover or tattlered interior. It's far more than saffety inspection. Once it passes, it becomes "prior salvage" and can be licensed again.

But, as a salvage title, it would serve the same needs as the junking certificate. You could use parts to construct another vehicle and that would serve as the documention for the parts you used. If you're just going to use the salvage vehicle for parts, either type documentation, salvage title or junking certificate, would serve the same purpose.

It used to be you couldn't even sell a junker to the junk yard without one or the other. I've known people who cut up the remains, after they got what they wanted, into small, unidentifiable pieces just to get rid of it. But recently they changed the law so that if it's over 10 years old and inoperable, a junk dealer can now buy it.

 

No, not at all true. You're issued a new vin for a vehicle you built. The cab, body, frame or whatever is just a compnent of that vehicle. You have to have bills of sale for some parts, like motor, fenders, etc. But they specificaly require a title for the vehicle the body, cowl, cab or frame came from. The title you get after using the parts and getting it inspected is a normal title just like any other car, kit car or whatever. Completly clear title.

 

The below sentence, from you initial post, is what confused me. Still confused as I re-read the highlighted area.

"A junking certificate will work just the same. It allows you to possess, sell, or use the parts, it does prevent you from registering that particular car again."
If you can't register the vehicle again, what is the NEXT owner to do ?

 

If you get a junking certificate on a 1934 ford 2 dr, vin 1234, you can't register that car, vin 1234, again. You can take that body, and build your own car, using another frame, another motor, and when you go to register that car you built, the junking certificate is your documentation for the 1934 body you put on your hot rod. Most places you'd probably have to have some sort of documentation for the frame as well. It will then be registered as, maybe even a 1934 ford (in Missouri it would) but with a new VIN issued by the state. Not that much different than if you bought a new factory built body, which many companies make now, and you built your own car. The factory built body would come with some documentation from the manufacturer to use for registration, this would be the equal to that.

I'm sure this all varies from state to state. In Missouri, the above car would be registered as a 1934 Ford (the car it most resembles). In Texas, it would be registered as whatever the chassis was, regardless of what it looks like. Those are the only two I'm familiar with.

All I can say is, if it helps someone to know this, great. If it worries you, don't do it. I now have the documentation I need to complete my White semi/Dodge diesel project. Wish I'd known this when I was hauling around a couple vehicles getting bonded titles at the cost of a few hundred $ each. When I found the details in the statutes I was quite relieved to find the solution to my White semi problem.

 

Buy a parts car, with no title, pulled out of a barn. You can't title *this* car again.

Buy or fab a frame, plus the rest of the stuff you need to make a car. Everything but the body.

Put the body from the parts car on your frame + other stuff. Take the resulting car to the DMV, along with the junk certificate for the parts car, bill of sale for the engine, bill of sale for the frame, and get a new title for *this* car.

The resulting car has parts of other former cars combined, each of which you have to be able to prove that you own, aren't stolen, etc., in order to get a clean title.


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When I was in Louisiana I learned that you can take a car to the State Police and ask for a Certificate of Physical Inspection and they have to give you one. Take that to the DMV along with insurance papers and give them a signed statement saying you are a member of an organized car club and they issue you a title Simple, cheap and it works. I did it more than once. Its the Law

 

Nevada DMV will not even talk to you without a Title

 

Thanks, a good explanation.