History - I've painted a few cars in the past. It's just my own stuff - maybe a car every year or three. I'm no pro but with a cut and buff my stuff usually turns out pretty nice. I used to use PPG paints. - I liked DBC basecoats and Concept 2002 clear. I found the clear to be very forgiving; it dries pretty slow but for this amateur that worked in my favor as it seems to help the clear flow out better. Bear in mind this is all being sprayed in my garage. As a bonus, the suppler I bought the paint from was great. A smaller mom&pop type place with helpful staff who were good with DIY guys like me. But it's been about 6 years since I bought paint, and in that time my paint store was bought up by a bigger company. They no longer sell PPG and they are much more geared to production shops. So I've been searching for a new store. NAPA has a bodyshop supply store ( CMAX ) close to my work, so it would be handy. They sell Axalta brand (used to be Dupont?) but they have a few different product lines and I'm not %100 clear on which would be comparable to the PPG stuff I liked. Looking for advice/opinions...
Almost everything you will be looking at now will be a waterbourne base coats so none will be the same as DBC which you can no longer buy from a Canadian Distributor as it is not legal. The guys at CMAX are good guys. If you are looking for more of a Mom and Pop type store store maybe try AMP they are just off the Yellowhead and 124st. They are a PPG distributor and could probably give you some advise on what would be closest to the old DBC and Concept system. The only other PPG distributor in Edmonton is Western Paint but they don't really sell to the public. You must have been buying from Rocky Mountain before? They have a solvent compliant line of paint that I know a few jobbers are using that seems to be very good and way less money than the branded product called Matrix. It will work much more like the DBC than any of the waterbourne lines and may be easier for home use as you are not reliant on airflow for the base to dry as you are with waterbourne. They are also in the west end 143st and 121 Ave.
Yeah, I was buying from Rocky Mountain. I know they are now part of the Carlson's body shop supplies chain, I still buy some stuff Lord Fusor stuff from them. I did a search of their website; they are a distributor for BASF paints. From what I can tell BASF has Glasurit (expensive paint system), R-M (mid priced system), and also a cheaper line. I know nothing about either of these paints but I'm going to dig deeper in them.
For years I was a PPG guy, hated Dupont, still do. No idea what's available in Canada but like K13 said if you can find a Matrix distributor you would like the paint. I worked for a Matrix distributor a few years ago, it's basically the same as PPG, matter of fact you'll see if you take the "d" out of a PPG number and put a "m" in it's place they are the same part, for example you like DBC ask for MBC at a Matrix store. Like PPG DP40, in Matrix it's MP400. I use to shoot a lot of DCU single stage, PPG dropped it (at least here) but Matrix still has MCU. Bonus , it's a LOT cheaper then PPG as well.
I was a big fan of PPG and Concept as well. Recently I got a helping hand from Axalta to use on a project and the Cromax Premier LE8700 Premium Appearance Clearcoat was as good or maybe even better than the Concept in how it tacked up and laid out. Even the guy who does my color sanding and buffing commented on how it was the best clear he had ever polished in 30+ years of doing it.
I stopped at NAPA / CMAX today while out running around for work. They do stock the LE8700 Don mentions but holy cow! Over $500 for a gallon of clear before buying hardner & reducers. I'm not trying to be cheap but that's getting pretty pricey....They gave me a few more options on different Cromax clears they stock, tonight I'll try to do a bit more homework on those products. Also spoke to the Rocky Mountain guys & they do sell the Matrix line, going to investigate that as well, thanks for the advice. If anyone else has experience with their products I'd like to hear it. Specifically, I want to know about their clears. Since I'm painting in the garage a clear that sands & polishes well is important. I'm just hoping I can find one for something in the 200$/ gallon range, not 500... Not going to lie, this is frustrating me a bit. It seems like there is no middle ground on price. There seems to be lots of generic inexpensive clears at many suppliers but I can't seem to get a real answer on how durable they are, or how easy they are to sand & polish (or for that matter, who makes them). Or REALLY expensive...The other thing that is starting to annoy/confuse me is that most of the stores I've spoken to don't really seem to concentrate on selling one line of products from start to finish. That runs against the grain of everything I've ever read or known, where painters seem to be pretty adamant about using one company's products for every step.
In this day and age the only real advantage of using the same product line from start to finish is warranty if something goes wrong. Being that you are doing it in your garage the paint company will more than likely tell you to pound sand anyways. At the shop level if it is different products throughout the repair all the various companies will just blame the other if something goes wrong to deny warranty so there is where you get an advantage using only one product line that and the paint companies exert a LOT of pressure on shops not to use other products for obvious financial reasons. Almost all generic products will be bound by a contract with the original manufacturer to not reveal who makes it so you will have a very hard time finding out who does it if they are not manufacturing themselves (which many do) as the fines can be pretty hefty for revealing the information. All paint lines should have a cheaper product offering that would be midrange between their top of the line products and generics like PPG's Omni, Nason for Axalta etc. They usually don't have the same pigment concentrations so they will not cover as well but are cheaper. That is where lines like Matrix have done well as they have coverage like the high end lines and pricing like the midpoint.
K13, what you say makes way too much sense...and I agree you are correct when it comes to warranty. I think I'd have a better chance of flying to the moon by flapping my arms than I would have making a warranty claim with a paint manufacturer. But I was surprised. I talked to 4 suppliers today, I think that's every supplier in the city! The only one that recommended using the same manufacturer for the clear as the basecoat was CMAX with the Axalta products. When I spoke to Rock Mountain about the Matrix product they spoke highly of the basecoat. When I asked about clear the recommended a couple different clears (neither Matrix) product. I asked why not Matrix clear and the guy really didn't have a good answer other than costs.
Part of it is also what they get deals on based on volume or if they have a distribution deal with a company. I would guess Rocky suggested 5 Star Clear because their parent company has distribution rights in Canada for it so they want to sell it. NAPA has strong ties with Axalta and they cannot get many other clears from their warehouse so for the most part unless you insist on a cheap alternative they will push the Axalta products. Until about 8-10 years ago generics were pretty uncommon in Canada so everyone just recommended what paint line they carried but they have really taken off since then so there are a lot more choices than there was in the past.
I'm a huge fan of cromax base. It's simply amazing. It orientates metallics like you wouldn't believe and the coverage is unmatched. Look into Nason clear coat. It's Axata's lower line but it's really decent and very forgiving to spray.
K13 - Jeez, you are on top of it. Rocky M recommended 5 star clear or Advantage clear...I'm not sure about either. I spent about an hour surfing the Matrix website. Metalman is right, it is very much like the PPG products I was familiar with. I read a bunch of other reviews online that claim Matrix was founded by former PPG employees, so I guess the similarities make sense. I read a bunch of the Matrx TDS pages and they read exacty like my old PPG sheets. So tomorrow I'm going to give them a call back for some pricing to compare to the Axalta product.
The Matrix basecoat will work just like the DBC you are use to. I use Matrix MS42 High Solid clear, like it a lot. Lays out nice, really buffs out nice and easy. I use it on all my "show" paint jobs. Not sure of price there but should be a whole lot less the $500 gallon! Not a fan of some of Matrix lower line production clears, same with 5 Star and Advantage, too much orange peel and hard to buff. I think high solids is the key.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the whole Matrix line. As well as the base & clear it would be great to get black epoxy primer like the DP90 I used to use. I was looking at the MS42 clear and also the "euro" clear. What is it with every manufacturer labeling some of their clears as "euro"? Is this a real thing or is it just marketing? I have a new question regarding clears. Has anyone heard of BESA finishes? I never had. But I was at KMS tools today drooling over some stuff and went into the bodyshop supply area for some acetone. They have a couple different types of BESA branded clears ("ultra high solids") on display there, and it was on sale really cheap, 77 bucks for a gallon of clear. Sounds too good to be true. I googled BESA looking for reviews & opinions but all I found was their website...nice enough website..they are from Spain.
The term "Euro clear" usually refers to the packaging it comes in. It is a 7 liter kit (common in Europe) rather than a 5 liter kit (common in NA). BESA is made by Bernardo they are a big paint company in Spain. There stuff is decent but KMS has probably had it sitting on their shelves forever. Try calling Southtown NAPA I believe they sell the BESA products and could give you an idea of what it sells for normally and probably a good idea of what it's like.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll give southtown a buzz in the morning, it can't hurt to ask. But I think I've convinced myself to give the Matrix a try. I was deeper into their website looking at the FX line and it seems like some pretty cool custom stuff. My next paint job is o/t to the HAMB (70 GTO) & will be a simple one color but the one after that...I might be brave enough to try something more exciting.
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