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Technical 52 saratoga dying when hot

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 52sara, Oct 16, 2016.

  1. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    evening guys, just got the head put all back together and installed on my car, ran it all day to put antifreeze in and check for leaks, was running for the most part of the day. Backed it out of the garage to let her run. Then when i went to put it into reverse to take it for a road test it just died and am unable to get it started again. Same thing happened when i first got it and let it sit overnight and fired right up. I'm thinking the ignition coil but can't find any specs on the factory coil. Resistance between the battery and distributor terminal is 1.5 ohms, and the high tension is 6800. Since it's cooled down the resistance hasn't changed so I'm skeptical of it being the coil. Anybody have any insight?
    Chris
     
  2. Assuming the stock flathead six...

    Did you adjust the lifters? To what specs and did you adjust them hot or cold? If the valve lash is just a bit too tight as the engine warms up the lash goes away and it will hold the valves slightly off their seats. Next time it stalls out hot you might want to grab a compression tester and see if it's got a couple weak holes. Sometimes, just before it stalls, you may hear a bit of faint backfiring thru the exhaust or carburetor.
     
  3. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    It's the 331 v8, sorry for not specifying. I couldn't find anything on adjusting lash so the head bolts were just torqued to 85 ft lbs. Problem is I'm unable to get it fired back up this time. I apologize for any ignorance but this is my first experience with something this old
     
  4. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 419

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    I would check for spark with a spark tester(load), or use a small screwdriver that is about a 1/4" from ground. If you get a blue(not orange) spark from the coil, it isn't that. If you know all that and I typed it for nothing...

    Use a test light to ground and check for 12 volts ignition on at the + and a flashing test light on the negative with it cranking. If you have that, bad coil. If not it's time to look at the points.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

  5. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    It's still the original 6 volt system, the distributor terminal does flash while cranking, so that's a bad coil? Pulling a plug and grounding it produced an orange spark as well so it does seem to be a bad coil
     
  6. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Curious what head work was done. Your engine does not have valve lash adjustment as it is equipped with hydraulic lifters. However, valve stem height is important in that system. If a head has had the valve faces and seats reground, the valve stem protrudes from the valve guide farther that the original dimension. After grinding the valves and seats, the stems must be measured and the tips ground to restore the correct length above the guide. If the stems or too long, they can exceed the range of the hydraulic lifter and hold the valves open a bit.

    You may well have an electrical problem. In fact, I hope that is it. But, if that all checks out, you'll be left still looking for the problem. Just offering something to consider.

    Best wishes,
    Ray
     
  7. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    I had cylinders 6 and 8 missing, thought it was a head gasket issue. Turned out #8 had a cracked valve face and #6 the the valve keepers broke and was stuck on 1 groove keeping compression out. Replaced with new valve and and keepers just cleaned the seats up. I'm thinking it's a coil issue
     
  8. could be that you just run out of gas from running it all day(your words)
     
  9. Saratoga is a Chrysler, isn't it. :oops: I was thinking it was a Dodge. :rolleyes:

    At any rate, have you checked that the fuel tank is venting properly?
     
  10. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    Yep it is a chrysler, there's fuel in the filter and the carb is spraying as it should. As stated before the spark is orange not blue so im thinking it is an ignition problem, also the distributor side of the coil does flash but i thought it was supposed to do that
     
  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I agree the dist side should flash as the engine cranks and the points make and break. Think the guy who posted that made a typo and left out a word.

    As I recall those engines have dual points. Are you sure both are clean and gapped correctly. Also, there is a flexible ground wire in there that grounds the breaker plate to the distributor body, if it is broken or badly frayed, you could have a poor connection there.

    Really, a methodical check of all elements of the ignition system, i.e. connections, voltages, all along the way from the ignition switch to, and through, the coil and distributor may be time well spent. Random guessing tends to waste time and occasionally there is more than one thing wrong.

    Ray
     
  12. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    The points are brand new and i don't recall what i gapped them to, i believe it was around .014 to. 016. All the wires are new in the distributor and up to the coil. Is that ground wire underneath the breaker plate? I don't recall seeing it. The car desperately needs rewired so the ignition switch was bypassed to a push button under the hood directly to the starter solenoid with a wire with a quick disconnect From battery to coil to not fry the coil. As i said before the i redid the wires in the distributor so they shouldn't be a problem. Once i get off work I'll have to see if it'll fire up after sitting. It was runnimg but just died and wouldn't start again. Is there a ballast resistor in these cars or is there an internal resistor in the coil? If not internal maybe bypassing it screwed the coil up
     
  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    It's not so much for the benefit of the coil that later 12 volt ignition systems use a reduced voltage through the coil. It's for the benefit of the ignition points. When the points break the voltage wants to arc across the points, eroding them. The purpose of the condenser is to absorb that voltage flow momentarily to reduce/eliminate point arcing, thereby greatly increasing their life span. 6 volt systems just didn't have much of problem with that.

    On voltage are you operating the engine? If 6 volts, I don't think you would want either an internal resistance coil or a ballast resistor. Either would likely drop the coil primary voltage too low and reduce secondary voltage across the plug gaps.

    Btw, you probably know this, but when gapping the dual points, be sure each set of points is gapped with it's cam follower at the peak of the distributor cam lobe. They are timed slightly different from one another, and the engine must be rotated a bit to bring the cam into proper position for each point set.

    Ray
     
  14. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    It is the 6 volt system, and yup i know:rolleyes: i deal with points on a daily basis in the aviation industry! Except their systems are 14 or 28 volt
     
  15. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The magnetos have points, but so far as I know, they are not directly related to the voltage of the aircraft electrical system. Magnetos are self energizing. But, I get your point. :D

    Ray
     
  16. 52sara
    Joined: Oct 10, 2016
    Posts: 24

    52sara

    Hah! I see what you did there! Yeah just saying with setting up points. I got it running yesterday, turned out what happened was the idle was set too low and when it kicked into low idle trying to move it just shut it off. Plugs were fouled with fuel as well from trying to restart it I'm assuming. Kept it running all last night no problems, drove great except the distributor still needs timed correctly. Thanks for the input guys, appreciate it!
    Chris
     
  17. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Good news! Thanks for the update.

    Ray
     

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