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Technical Rocker oil line on outside

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by StefanS, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Thats exactly what I was going to do. I'm not positive I'm taking it back apart just yet though. I just realized I got a '59 and up rocker assembly. I thought the offset rocker groove started in '58. I didn't bother to look at mine when I had them off. Now I don't know if the "new" rocker assembly will work since it has offset grooves. I'm assuming it'll increase the oil pressure on the rocker shaft and I don't know if that'll hurt anything or not.
     
  2. lowrd
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 405

    lowrd
    Member

    There is a web site I think titled the 235 Guy out there somewhere that addresses some of the issues you are asking about.
    Can't remember the exact site name, but I think you'll find it.
     
  3. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
    gas pumper likes this.
  4. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I was talking to pre68dave about this last night. He said he "thinks" it should be ok but I have a couple choices to be sure it'll work. One, drill out the orifice to 11/32 or whatever it is or two, cut a path on the inside of the rocker from the groove to the oil hole. I definitely don't want to drill the orifice and get shavings in my motor. I guess I could cut the path inside the rocker arm but I think I'll go try and find myself another set instead
     
  5. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I just realized I didn't explain why I thought this rocker setup was correct for my engine. It has the pre '59 style oil tube. I guess that means someone in the past put the wrong setup on.?
     
  6. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    The modification was done to increase the pressure & flow to the new rocker system. If you have some old style rockers in there it would seem you will be flooding them with too much oil.??? If it was mine I would change all to the new type or keep them all old style. If you modify the oil passage & use both types of rockers it is possible that neither type will work correctly.
     
  7. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Sounds like that's what was done. When you mentioned different amounts of wear that was a red flag.
     
  8. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I'm gonna go back out there next week and see if I can find either a good post '59 front half assembly or a complete pre '58 assembly. I definitely don't want to mix and match them.
     
  9. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Probably better not to.
     
  10. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  11. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    So I went back to the junkyard today. I found what I think is a '58 chevy. It had an 848 head, whatever year it is. Anyway, it had the oil return tube so I figured I'd check it out. I pulled the assembly off and checked to see if there was any play in the rocker arms...none. This time, I pulled a rocker off to make sure it was grooved in line with the hole...it was. I carried the entire setup to the front desk, offered $25 and he took it. Now to clean them up, try and clean out the internal oil passage and bolt these bad boys on. Cha ching...score
     
  12. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Alright so this is the craziest s*** ever. My block is a confirmed by the numbers '58. I guess my research could have been wrong so I'll post my numbers here. The number on the distributor pad is FI025J, the numbers by the starter are con j 77, the number under the distributor is 3738307 and the number on the head is the only one I can find at the moment and is 3836848 which is a '56 head. What you all think? This motor has the 50-58 style rockerswith the center grooves. I don't know how I didn't notice this before but it has the 59 and up style oil distribution tube on the rocker shaft assembly. Could this be the cause for the need for the external oil line? It seems like it would cause way more pressure inside the tubes but with the 1/16 orifice maybe it wasn't getting enough oil up top?.. Now I'm stumped again. What the F
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  13. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Block casting #3738307 was used '58 -'60, cars & trucks except '60 only cars.
    Does yours have solid lifters or hydraulic?
     
  14. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    The guy I got it from said solid but I honestly have no way to tell since I can't get the lifters out. He said it was out of a truck. What do you think about the '59 and up rocker oil tube?
     
  15. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    If it is a truck engine it will have solid lifters. It would be real nice if you could get one out to see if it is a proper lifter.

    It looks like possibly somebody changed the lifters & didn't use the correct lifter & then had to play games getting oil to the rockers.

    1958-1962 235 and 261 truck engines used a solid (mechanical) lifter (tappet) that had an annulus around the lifter body for passage of oil to the rocker shaft assembly. Earlier mechanical tappets (lifters) should not be used in these engines (but hydraulic lifters could be used).
     
  16. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I decoded it when I first got it and remember it being a '58 truck motor, I just can't remember the website where I saw the numbers. I want to pull the pipe plug out of the oil passage and see if it measured 1/16 or not. Is there any need to seal it up or anything if I pull it out and, is the orifice easy to access once I do? I have the rocker oil tube that loops back around with the "new" setup but when I ran the pump with the drill, it seemed to work perfectly fine with the tube that goes into the assembly and stops. If I can see what size hole it has, that will tell me which tube to use I suppose. I'd like to get rid of that line that prompted this whole thread
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  17. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    I'm afraid you are getting into detail I am not familiar with. To me, the best way would be to make it oil through the lifters. You can get a lifter out with some determination & coaxing. Find one that is above the casting where you can get some pliers on it. wrap some masking tape or electrical tape on it & carefully rotate it in the hole. When it turns easily you can put some upward pressure on it. Eventually it will break the varnish loose & come out.

    There should be somebody here that is familiar with the fine points of this oil system that can answer your questions. I wish I could be more help.
     
  18. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I'm gonna pull it out tomorrow so I'll let you know what happens
     
  19. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Found it on tocmp under '58 truck
    F=Flint
    1025= Oct 25
    J= 3100/3200/3800 truck
     
  20. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Since those blocks were used for a number of years, that still doesn't give you the year.

    https://www.fillingstation.com/articles/castingdates.htm
    From the 1920's through the 1960's GM used a casting date system to identify the date when a part was made. A casting number is a raised number which is cast into the block, cylinder head, transmission case, differential housing and many other cast iron parts. Casting dates are a series of raised letter-number combinations.
    In the example, "B 15 2", the first letter is the month (i.e.: A=January, B=February, etc.). The first number or numbers "15" are the day of the month, or February 15th. The last number is the last digit of the year. In this example, the "2" indicates 1932, 1942, 1952, etc. You must be able to identify the part within a 10-year range.
    - See more at: https://www.fillingstation.com/articles/castingdates.htm#sthash.g4lSiERY.dpuf

    See if you can find a cast number of the type described above.

    Based on what you said in your other thread somebody put a 261 cam in your engine. I would certainly want to know if they used the right lifters.
     
  21. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    On the same site I found that on, I looked on '59 and '60 and the numbers were a completely different arrangement than mine. I also found, in my research when I first picked this motor up, the '58 truck 235s came from the factory with 261 cams. The only thing that made second guess everything I thought I knew was the rocker oil tube since it was the '59 and newer type. I'm pulling that plug today to see what size orifice is in there. Then there'll be no question.
     
  22. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    This is where I saw it Screenshot_2016-10-06-08-41-46.png
     
  23. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Yes, it is ok as far as it goes. That cast number will be there somewhere.
     
  24. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I'll look for it again today. I listed all the numbers I saw yesterday but it was kinda hard to see them. Where exactly is the casting number on the block? I saw a the number on the distributor pad, the number under the distributor, and the number that would be behind the starter
     
  25. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

  26. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Let me ask you guys this real fast...before I pulled the distributor, I made sure the number 1 cylinder was at tdc by pointing the bb on the flywheel at the pointer, having the octane selector on 0 and the rotor pointing directly at the number one terminal on the cap. Now I just read something that said to make sure the pointer on the bellhousing is at the triangle on the flywheel..? I didn't notice a triangle but, which mark is actually tdc? Do I need to do all this over again?
     
  27. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    The bb is what you want. Remember, the cam makes 1 revolution for 2 of the crank. Both #1 & #6 will be on tdc. You want it to fire with both valves closed. Turn the engine until the ball shows & both #1 valves are closed. Don't worry about the triangle. It is not an engine timing mark.
     
  28. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    I figured the bb was where I needed to set it to, what I read just added doubt to my mind. After I posted that question, I started thinking more about it. I guess as long as I didn't turn the crank at all when the distributor was out, and I put the distributor back in with the rotor pointing at the number one terminal (where I had it before I pulled it) it doesn't make a difference anyway whether it's the bb or the triangle
     
  29. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Sounds like it should be OK.
     
  30. StefanS
    Joined: Oct 7, 2013
    Posts: 1,287

    StefanS
    Member
    from Maryland

    Well I just pulled the plug under the side cover and it looks like it's just a pipe plug in the side of the tube. I don't see a 1/16 or 11/32 hole. It just goes in and it's a smooth inner wall of the vertical oil passage but no small hole..?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016

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