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Hot Rods Older vintage Cragar S/S wheel question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by cruizznn, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. cruizznn
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    cruizznn
    Member
    from ohio

    Somehow I got it in my mind that actual older cragar ss wheels in a 15X10 size was a 3-1/2 backspace. I have 2 sets of these one being 3-7/8 and the other 2 are 3-3/4. I was planning on using a set of these but am not sure they will fit right now seeing the measurements. First, does anyone have an older literature to show the different sizes available years back? Second, what are anyones thoughts on using wheel spacers if need be. I was always leery of them but one I have laying around fits against the drum and the wheel flush. Thanks for any input
     
  2. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,407

    alchemy
    Member

    As long as I was getting a full grip with the lug nut I wouldn't feel scared of a 1/4" wheel spacer. Even better with the shanked lug nuts that old Cragars use. Those wheels weren't hub centric, they were centered with the studs.
     
    need louvers ? likes this.
  3. Super64belair
    Joined: Jul 11, 2016
    Posts: 14

    Super64belair

    I would say you could probably get away with using a 1/4" spacer as long as it fits well and the wheel is allowed to center itself like Alchemy said. Anything thicker than that, no way. The spacers I have seen used that are about an inch thick with studs built in are nothing but a big hazard waiting to happen. It places a bunch of stress on the existing studs and other parts in the suspension. Basically it's like trying to hold a sledge hammer out horizontally from your body without the weight causing you to drop it when your arm is not strong enough to hold it up.

    Applying the sledge hammer example to the wide spacers multiplies the stress on the hubs, bearings, studs and suspension plus can eventually lead to alignment issues once all is incurring wear. In your case, I would say try it with the 1/4 inch spacer. If it doesn't feel right, you should probably trust your gut and figure out another option. I know a friend working on a 55 Chevy for a customer had to use a spacer for the left rear wheel due to clearance issues. That was the only way the set of wheels the owner bought would work on the car. I don't recall how thick the spacer was but know it wasn't more than about 1/4 inch thick. I also had a 67 Nova that had the Cragar full wheel with the perimeter bolts (forgot the name, 70ish era) in chrome that used the lug nut shoulders to help center the wheels within the slots for the lug holes. I ran into where one came loose about 20 miles down the road. Luckily I didn't loose the wheel or lugs. Due to not being an exact bolt pattern type wheel, I would recheck the lug nut torque after a few miles just to make sure it's tight. Just my experience and only saying something so loosing a wheel doesn't occur for someone else. Best of luck.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
     
  4. low budget
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5,566

    low budget
    Member
    from Central Ky

    If a 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch wider is going to make that much difference you must already be thinking on running pretty close. Are you worried about something hitting on the inside of the rim? What are you running them on? A more narrow tire can sometimes solve your problem of a wider wheel if your tire is whats actually hitting.
    I have ran spacers behind cragars but to honest I always felt a little uneasy about it. I eventually bought some cragars that I didnt need spacers for. I like a good set of new matching lug nuts, wheels new or used flush mounted and not wallowed out any.
     

  5. cruizznn
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    cruizznn
    Member
    from ohio

    They are going on the back of a willys coupe. I want to run radir 10.00-15 cheater slicks and the center section of the tire is my concern. it is pretty close right now with a set of old N-50 goodyear tires on the one set of wheels now. It is my own fault as I thought 3.5" of backspace was what these were. You're right, when it is close the 1/4-3/8 is a lot.. I don't know how much sideways movement there is on slicks like that. I can't imagine a 10" wheel could have very much less backspace as that hub is pretty far back as it is....but I guess look at new cars clear out to the front edge!
     
  6. Sorry to side track a little but just curious if any one has first hand knowledge of a failure involving the thicker spacers with the attached studs.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  7. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Is Hamb first hand? There was a guy not long ago, Model A full fender, that lost the driver front. It was proved on here, and he agreed, the inner lugs were not torqued enough.

    When you tighten a stock steel wheel like 40s-70s, the area around the conical seat of each lug hole, compresses as the nut gets tighter. That is how/why the squawking noise comes from. That compressibility helps keep the nut from loosening. (like a spring steel wave washer)

    But, the very thick adapter/spacer, when you tighten the inner nuts, the aluminum does not compress, so it needs better tightening, and to a higher torque. Left sides will loosen before a right side will, and is why some old cars used L.H. threads on driver side.

    I really studied up on these "adapter/spacers" to know if they have a bad record. I did not see that on web searches. Offroad 4x4s put these through some tough conditions, from searches I did.

    I did find out this:.... that slip on spacers normally do not come any thicker than 1/2". A spacer thicker than 1/2" needs to be the "adapter/spacer" design with integrated studs.

    Also, we need to use common sense when stacking things like this, and keeping in mind exactly what the backspacings are on our wheel, and if it seems to be now extending the tire out way too far.
     
    wraymen likes this.
  8. Thanks, for the info. A few failures related to me by a manufacturer were the result of the original wheel studs making contact with the wheel. He suggested new/shorter high quality studs should be installed when using spacers.
    The "first hand" was used to see if anyone had any failures and why they failed and to hopefully weed out the my buddy's brother's neighbor stories.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  9. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I do know what that MFG was talking about. Most of these adapter spacers now come with one set of 10 special nuts (for a 5 lug), and the adapter has a chart of which OEM cars/years it will safely fit, and the thickness will be thicker for cars with known longer studs.

    If you use these nuts to hold the spacer to the original studs, there will be no chance of the wheel hitting them. The nuts have more thread length than stock nuts, but not long enough to stick out.

    also, the better adapter/spacers have the center hole to be hub centric to the car you order them for. Generic fit spacers just have a random large hole, and use lug centric.

    it is possible that some people used the wrong spacer thickness, and studs did hit
    .
     
  10. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I run a 1/8 spacer on the back of my truck with the sticky dots, many passes, no problems so far, knock on wood.
    As far as Cragar backspacing, I know firsthand you have been able to order them with custom backspacing at least as far back as the late seventies.
     
  11. Shoot me a PM if you want to see a pair of 15x10 Cragars that I have. They measure 3 1/2'' from the wheel flange to the tire bead.
     
  12. cruizznn
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    cruizznn
    Member
    from ohio

    yes the thick spacers would be worrisome..ummm... maybe not back in my teens and twenties as much lol. Chevy57 dude...I will.
     
  13. Galaxie390
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 13

    Galaxie390
    Member

    How does a right rear wheel pass me on the left side when the studs fail? I vote no on spacers.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  14. Here's the set I have, they are a 70's uni lug pair of 15x10s stuck away in case I want a change.
    The white rod is 3 1/2'' from the mounting flange. So the thickness of the metal on the wheel itself is the ''error''.
    Pic #3 shows the spacing for the front, I just hooked the tape measure to the same flange. Shoulda straightened out the hook. If dropped, the bent hook eats up a little measurement this way. Oops.
    Hope this helps. IMG_20160725_060528463.jpg IMG_20160725_060555092.jpg IMG_20160725_060714288.jpg
     
  15. cruizznn
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    cruizznn
    Member
    from ohio

    It looks like you are measuring that as I thought was supposed to be done also, but everything I read shows measuring from the top of the wheel not in the small curve that the wheel weight sets in. Unfortunately it appears cragar wheel site has a write only option to contact them so I did and hopefully they write back, to ask if they also do custom backspacing..I know they do direct drill if want. thanks for the pics though.
     
  16. cruizznn
    Joined: Feb 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    cruizznn
    Member
    from ohio

    They wrote back pretty quickly. I guess the 61C wheel is called an Original direct drill and they can adjust the backspace. Just wished it used shank lug nuts instead of conical seat, but that is essentially doing the same thing I guess.. Also it always looked to me that the spokes were rather flat in their pics and I asked..evidently they do have some flatness to all of the new S/S compared to the old school ones. Before I do anything else I am getting those slicks and checking fitment....the feeling I get here on the spacers is not the most welcome sounding...yes they will work but is it safe.
     
    chevy57dude likes this.

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