Yeah. I dwelled on it a bit trying to get the angles correct and all proper clearance. I think I might need slightly shorter shocks. Everything is a compromise one way or the other. The fixed bearing shocks allow a good bit of flexibility without binding which is nice.
You let the cat out of the bag!! My secret plans are ruined. In all seriousness I think I need to bleach my eyes. It always amazes me to see cars like this where someone obviously spent quite s bit of money and time as well as decent construction quality to produce something so hideous.
I set the GMC 270 in between the rails and it seems to fit better than I expected. From what I've read, the oil pan needs to be sectioned to clear the crossmember and steering gear when using the stick crossmember. I think I am going to be able to clear it without sectioning. Does anyone have any measurements of how high the valve cover rests above the frame rails and also how far back from the front of the frame rails to the back of the engine surface where it meets the bell housing? I don't want the engine to sit too high but if I can get by without the oil pan surgery I'll be a happy man.
I'm glad to see your plan to use a 270 for power. As an inline fan and owner of a 302 Jimmy, I appreciate that you are going to preserve the legacy of the famous 270 that terrorized the flat heads in the 50s. The Jimmys have tremendous amounts of torque and an exhaust note that is distinctively beautiful. There are stories of the flathead owners hiding their "pink-slips" when they heard a Jimmy coming into the Drive-Inn. While mine is in a pickup so I can't help with any dimensions, I've carefully looked over the installs of two Jimmys in 50s Chevys recently and in both cases the best solution was to cut a section out of the front of the pan to clear the crossmember. An important consideration when locating the engine is to be able to get it as close to the firewall as possible because of the extra length of the Jimmy. In some cases the builders resorted to moving the radiator to in front of the core support. Getting the motor lower in the chassis is also a worthy endeavor. Years ago I swapped a 1959 side mount 235 into my 50 chevy and was able to lower the motor over 3" by eliminating the front crossmember motor mount and timing cover bracket. It made a tremendous difference in the way the car handled with the lower engine. From your pictures I see you are using a V8 bell housing for your mock-up. You need to get a Chevy or GMC bell housing and do what is necessary to connect that transmission to it. An important feature of the original bell housings is the integral rear motor mount/torque arm bosses that you'll need for your install. A tail shaft mount will be insufficient to support all that weight and will provide zero torque control. GMCs had a cradle rear mount setup for their bell housing that might make your install easier. Although the Chevy chassis is a fully boxed frame, with the torque of the Jimmy in it you will run the risk of turning it into a pretzel without a rigid crossmember at the rear of the engine and a stout "X" member tying that to your trailing arm member. Since your chassis will be capable of "laying the frame", just make sure that no part of the engine or flywheel sit below that. I imagine that you will need to set the body back on before you will be able to finalize the engine location, just to be safe and save a lot of grief later. Have a look at the albums on my profile page for a look at "SemiSweet", my Jimmy. The ELLIS intake manifold you'll see there is now just part of a collection of Jimmy things I've collected over the years that I should consider passing along, as well as McGurk, Fenton, and Charlie Baker stuff. If I can be of any help to your build, you're welcome to PM me. Best Regards and good luck with all your endeavors, KB.
Hey Telefunkn, thanks for the tips! I do have the proper bell housing, I just need to dig it up so no worries there. I was planning on fabricating a front engine mount that resembles the Hurst saddle type and tie it to the frame using the flathead biscuit type mounts. I was hoping to try to avoid the bell housing side mounts if possible to keep that area free for exhaust, shift linkage etc. Do you think the two side mounts up front wilI be sufficient to control the torque? will not be laying frame and am trying to keep everything above the scrub line but in order to do so, I need to tuck everything up pretty well
thanks! just trying to learn and hopefully share the knowledge and experiences good and bad along the way.
Does the 270 share any of the basic demensions as 216/235's? If so I can donate some measurements from a 53. It's currently 1/4 back from oem & same height as oem but radiator clearance in stock position is tight. I stuffed 3 different 6's in there while it was easy access & made mounts for possible future transplants if needed, 53 235, 55 up 235 & 292. Love seeing your talent applied to that 50. Flux.
Hey Flux, thanks for the pics. Your work is super clean! Looks fantastic. As a guesstimate, the GMC is probably about an inch and a half larger in each dimension than the Chevy stove bolts. If you wouldn't mind, the crucial measurements that would be helpful are: 1. Distance between top of frame rail and top of valve cover (want to make sure the hood will close and see if I can install without oil pan surgery). 2. Distance from front of frame rail to fire wall recess for engine. 3. Crankshaft centerline height above frame rails. 4. Distance between harmonic balancer and foremost crossmember. This would really help out! I'm going to try to orient the engine as low and as far back as practically possible.
Thanks Devin! Been busy with life & work myself & plan to return to our 53 in the fall, everybody needs their own business at least once.... I'm starting to see why it takes me 8 years per project . Here's the low down on my 235 measurements ........ # 1. Top of frame to top of v cover, directly in line with my Front intake runner & dead center of forward control arm bushing 20-7/8 to bottom of yardstick. # 2. Firewall recess to front frame rail 37-1/2 , used an angle finder on the board squared up perfectly 0 degree tilt & 90 degree so it'll be accurate. # 3. Crankshaft centerline above the frame rails 1-9/16 . I also considered n factored in is the 1/16 thick straightedge. # 4. Distance b/t balancer's "flat face" & the rear of the front crossmember is super tight 1-1/8. On each side. I bet I measured the original car prob 200 times before disassembly & am 1/4 back of stock & that was my call because I added a balancer bolt because I didn't want to pound on the babbit..... Lol. Carry on sir. Flux
You are the man! THANK YOU!! This is a huge help. Did you paint your frame or powder coat? If paint what did you use?
I Very welcome, I'm really 18 years old & trapped in a 45 year old shell....Ha ha. It's POR15 semigloss sprayed on & while it was tacky 2 coats of semi gloss duplicolor rattle can for easy future touch ups. The finish turned out perfect & indestructible. Cradle was powder coated. This build is gonna be fun to keep up with, the 270 Jimmy is an awesome touch ! Flux.
I started putting together a saddle-type front engine mount for the jimmy. Based on Flux's measurements I think I'm pretty well in the clear getting this beast in without messing with the oil pan. I may have to move the radiator forward just a bit but that shouldn't be crazy. I scored a stock saddle mount for $10 so if this doesn't work out I'm not screwed. I'm planning on using flathead biscuit style rubber mounts between the engine and frame. If anyone sees a flaw in this design or feels it won't hold the weight or be safe please chime in. The actual mounting tabs will be 3/8" mild steel. I'm thinking about the chassis engineering brackets for the frame.
Also, by creating two mounting locations on either side of the front of the engine, will I still need to uts the bell housing mounts? I'm hoping to eliminate the bell housing mounting in order to free up some space for exhaust, brake and clutch stuff.
Got home from work, cut the mounting plates out, got them lined up nice and tight, began to lay a nice weld bead and ran out of wire half way through! Damn it!
Flux, that 's a really nice install you are doing. the chevy side mounts make for stable and sturdy setup. Do you plan to use any torque links of the bell housing?
Devin, I like the front mount plan you have started but does the hoop miss your front crossmember? Spreading the mounting discs out to the sides will help stability of the motor. But like it or not you are going to need to support the major part of the engine's weight (650lbs)and all of the transmission's (100+lbs) by rear mounts off the bell housing. Those mounts must also control all of the engines torque as well as any fore/aft movement of the engine from the inertia of stopping and starting. The car's chassis originally had those mounts for the bell housing. With that bell housing all you needed to do was bolt it to the Jimmy. If you had interference between the oil pan and crossmember, it is a simple task to take a section out of the front of the pan. The car originally was able to fit everything( steering, exhaust, clutch and brake and throttle) onto the left side of the motor. It should be no different if you just go back to the original rear mounts and bolt up the 270 to it. There are other benefits to sectioning the front of the pan as well. Sectioning the front will create a sump area around the oil pickup tube and prevent pump from sucking air in hard braking situations. Well prepped motors have particular attention paid to oil control throughout the engine and many details about the pan such as hinged baffles and windage trays. There are many details to contend with when restoring and upgrading a vintage machine, but in this case you don't need to re-invent the rear motor mounts, clutch linkage, brake pedal mounts or master cylinder. So make this as simple for yourself as you can and save your energy for the tough parts to come. I thought of another solution which I have used many times but not for the purposes of clearing a pan. The solution is to cut a scoop out of the crossmember where the pan interferes and fill it in with a piece of large diameter pipe. Go to your nearest industrial pipe supply yard and ask for a cut-off scrap piece of 8"diameter schedule 8 pipe. They'll probably walk over to a barrel full of scraps and say "Here". Give the guy a Five for his after work beer. It doesn't need to be 8" or even schedule 8, you'll know it when you see it. Seeing your fine welding skills, you will have no trouble making the crossmember stronger than before. I hope these comments will help you understand the need for that rear crossmember. Best Regards and good luck with all your endeavors, KB.
Thanks & no bell housing mounts , I've built one stout gusseted, slim , flat 3/8 plate steel crossmember unlike most transplants. theres alot going on in s tight area. I used a hydraulic TOB , 53 truck bell housing, for the large center hole, 2 ring Saginaw 4 speed with Warner R10 overdrive grafted on back & the governor , silinoid, lever for lockout, speedo cable & bracketry for shifter mounting "no holes" on o/d, presented a mountain of obsticles. The crossmember is angle cut & lays tight on the top inner lip of the frame to replace the entire original crossmember that I plasma'd out & acts as a new structural support for frame "flex" & its awesome for exhaust routing. These were mock up pics but now done, fully welded & in for the long run. The underneath is cross braced & this sucker is heavy. Thanks & yes Devins welds are super nice! Still love that big GMC he's using too. Subscribed! Flux
The cradle mount definitely clears any obstruction including allowing the original generator to be used. Based on Flux's measurements that he provided I am able to position the engine allowing for at least 1/2" of clearance from any of the steering or crossmember. This will be adjustable as I have not begun tho build the frame mounts do nothing is welded in. As far as the bell housing mints are concerned, I've searched but am really struggling to find what the OEM mounts looked like or how they were mounted originally. Thanks for all the good advice.
That's a similar setup as I have planned. Similar bell housing, Saginaw 4 speed. Etc. I'm on the fence about clutch linkage I had leakage on my hydraulic TO in the roadster and ditched it for a jeep slave cylinder. I'd like to keep the clutch and brake masters off the firewall for aesthetic reasons but will probably wind up mounting them there for clearance. I really like the 3/8" plate idea for the crossmember. How did you gusset it? Is there another strip of 3/8 that runs underneath perpendicular to the top plate to form at "T"?
Flux, I forgot to ask: are you running a parking bake also? How is that mounted? It's a jungle down there
That jungle comment is a no crap true situation. The one & only reason I went to the firewall mounted pedals was all the clutter underneath. I couldn't locate a later 235 car bellhousing "no ears" at the time & used the early truck job with flat mounts even though they're not in use. The crossmember sits wedged nicely to the inner portion of the "top hat" frame. The park brake was another tight fit , lives in front of the shifter , it works ok but clearance between the lower "below floor" portion of the lever mechanism & top of the tranny is super super tight. I could see early on in our build that getting the whole oem crossmember underneath cut clean out was the best thing to do for room , sadly at an aestheticly unpleasing cost for the firewall, but servicing everything hydraulic above the floor is great & now the exhaust has a place to go. Now for a crossmember update, after sliding under the 53 I'd realized the short perpendicular support's that I had cut I didn't install due to a my showing it to a local welding college instructor & he said they'd be overkill. So here's the finished crossmember pics, as she now sits. I'll quit posting so many pics & let your artistic side once again begin to grace this thread with one super cool project. Carry on. Flux
The Jalopy Journal
