Technical Flathead wits end!?!?!??!

Check ALL of your ground wires and ground connections.

 

Watching. Lippy

 

The plot thickens:

Put stock distributor last night and it wouldn't start worth a crap. Wouldn't even idle. Checked the carb and it was seeping gas. Took it off and upon further inspection found a seeping/leaking power valve. I'm going to go through my box of 94's and see if I have a good valve, if not, I'm going to order a couple from MAC's.


I bet this will be a major part of my misfire but still feel that something is going on in the ignition.

I will update as soon as there's a change.

 

When I have had flathead problems I go straight to the Ford Barn... There be flathead experts there...
Old Ron, Walt Dupont, etc!

 

Enter the HAMB referral agency.

Hell no one here has ever even seen a flathead.

 

Update:

So, today, I installed a good 7.5" power valve in my carb. It has stock jets and the idle screws are @ 1 1/4 turns out. I reinstalled Bubba's distributor and set the timing on the pin.


The car starts good and idles pretty good. It runs nice and cool without any hit of overhearing. BUT, it still misfires. It seems that the smaller the throttle opening, the worse the misfire. The misfire is independent of engine vacuum. Basically as you accelerate, the car behaves relatively well until around 2,000 and then as RPM increases, the misfire gets worse and worse. It behaves at first (when it first starts to miss) as if it's only one cylinder, but as RPM's increase the misfire becomes more prevalent. If you floor it, it almost goes away.

The only things I have left to check before I have bubba send me a new distributor is plug wires and plugs. Even tough the plugs aren't more than 100 miles old, I know once a plug fouls, it's hard to recover. I have new wires coming from Brillman with Packard 440 wire.

I'm really starting to worry about valve train, but when it's not misfiring, it's dead smooth. I mean no hint of a bad valve or broken spring. AND when you floor it and get it to rev out smoothly, it pulls hard and long. I've been working on cars for 10 years and this thing has me stumped.

Keep the suggestions coming and I will update as I continue to test things.


Note: all popping and misfiring is happening through the exhaust. No intake coughs or anything of the sort.

 

SO, I did a plug chop last night real late (I'm sure my neighbors were happy) and it looks like there were 2 plugs with a medium/dark brown staining on the electrode (2&3) and one plug that actually looked charcoal/dark grey and somewhat fuel fouled (6).

My last thing to try is spark plug wires and plugs. After that, looks like I'm going to be pulling the intake to check valve springs on cyl 6.

 

I know this is a rebuild. But take a look at a compression check before disassembling.

 

I'll a 2nd "dirty old mans" opinion. I agree with DOM. We haven't heard anything about
upgraded valve springs with the new higher lift cam. Old fashioned "valve float" might
cause the misfiring above 2000 rpm.

 

I specified to my engine builder the exact thing that Schneider cams told me:

Zephyr or any other 100lb springs and 1 shim.


Now, do I know if they are actually zephyr springs? NO. So after today's compression check, plugs and wires, Depending on the results, I will be taking a look under the intake.

 

Oh, update:

I tried to drive the car to Boston on the highway Sunday and after approx 10 miles on the highway, the miss was so bad that I pulled off and headed home. By the time I got home, it was barely 1500 rpm before the misfire started. Plan on working on car after work tonight. Will update with more info.

 

Have you tried pulling the choke to see if it has any affect on the misfiring condition while driving?

 

Its moving around, get a fuel pressure gague on that thing ASAP and run it into the cabin. Could be as simple as a plugged filter. Personally I think your to high on jets and running out of fuel. I have yet to see a Flathead overheat like you are saying unless tits running seriously lean though in stop and go traffic. Power valve could do this. If you have a timing light with an advance knob you can actually check the timing on the distributor Bubba sent you but I have had like 5 of them and they are all dead on for the curve you request.

 

No, but that's a great idea. HOWEVER, from the behavior of the car, it doesn't seem like fuel. #6 spark plug is a fair bit darker than all the others, kind of pointing me in a specific direction.

It's kind of tough to be high on jets when they're STOCK. No fuel filter, no clog in the screen at the pump.

 

Check to see if you have the correct spark plugs. I have a Bubba Dizzy and set it at idle 8 degrees. Water wetter with distilled water as well. Mine is .80 over like yours.

 

Hi nevrDUN51 I usually don't add anything to the fix it threads (cause I don't know much) but here's something to check...since you mentioned 're tightening the intake bolts, I've known 2 people who discovered the intake manifold bolts were a HAIR too long, causing an intake manifold leak. Not long enough to notice but just long enough to collapse the lock washer, torque ok, and look ok but still not fully seal the manifold.
Just a thought, and good luck. And thanks for the updates.
Johnny

 

Valve springs! NO! Nothing to do with this, and your engine can probably reach its breathing limit on standard Ford ones!

Ok. You have not sorted ignition versus carb. Get systematic...
Ignition: remove 2 small wires from coil. Jumper from battery to switch side, short wire on other side, big wire plugged into coil but not distrib. Hold big wire 1/4 inch from metal, touch short small wire to a good clean ground and pull it away repeatedly. If you get a good snappy spark each time coils is goodenough and coil lead is probably OK.
Remove jumper from battery, replace the wire from switch and turn switch to ON. Repeat test with the ground wire as above, if sparks coil primary feed is getting the juice there.
Hook other wire from distrib back on, hold big wire close to engine again while starter turns over engine. If steady stream of sparking, your ignition system is probably functional, if no sparks you'll know where to look next. Oh, repeat with coil big wire back on checking for spark at a sparkplug too.

carb...guesses here are all over the place! Rich. lean, whatever!! Remove line from tank from the fuel pump, drain carb of gas by draining from a big screw at front of bowl into a cup. Carb is now out of business. Dump the gas from cup right down the carb's throat and turn'erover with the starter. Engine will ideally digest surplus gas, move into a good mix zone, and very briefly fire up, then die as it runs out. This result suggests that all will be well if carb is rendered functional. Next we move into carb if you arrive at this point!!

 

Use propane to check for your vacuum leak. Great to hear you're almost there.

 

SO, last night after work, I did my intake gasket. To set the stage, know that when I initially installed the intake, I used stainless steel replacement bolts with split ring long washers(from the local big box store).

Last night, I used an offenhauser gasket and even went so far as to put a small (1/16-1/8") bead of silicone around all the intake ports, top and bottom. I reinstalled the intake, using the stainless hardware, and torqued to 30 lbs. I did notice that it seemed as though either the gasket was compressing or the bolts wouldn't stay tight, as I had to torque them 5 times before they would stop taking torque. After I finished, I fired the car up and sprayed her down. Woah was the leak worse. So I torqued the bolts again and it got better but not much. So I removed the stainless bolts, 1 by 1 and replaced them with the factory bolts, also using lock washers (in case the slight length surplus of the stainless was bottoming out).

This is where things went from bad to worse. Now I promise you I installed both the stainless bolts and the factory bolts with my torque wrench, set to no more than 30 lbs. Well, I can say for sure that one of the bolts stripped out and there is potentially one more that is sketchy.


SO, my new mission is to remove my intake again, check/inspect/measure the block for straightness, and fix the stripped holes. The thing I am slightly worried about is that I picked the engine up with an engine crane, using an X chain to bolts @ the 4 corners of the manifold. For some reason I'm terrified that I warped something. Has anyone heard of this?? My plan is to simply buy and install an aluminum triple manifold with 2 block off plates (to not add more elements to an unsolved equation with multiple carbs), new gasket, and a stud kit for the intake. When I install it, I'm going to use a fair amount of RTV silicone on the mating surfaces, use the studs, and PRAY!!!



Any suggestions/experiences with intake sealing problems would be appreciated.

 

Cut a piece of cheap glass the exact same size as your intake. Use bluing on the mating surface of the intake and the engine block. Lay the glass separately on each surface. It will tell you if the surfaces are true by removing the glass by checking where the bluing isn't.

 

This is one of many good ways to do it, but you do seem to have some sort of mismatch between the manifold and the block. Did you do a trial fit against the manifold and separately against the block before you installed the manifold?

 

I just got done fighting an intake gasket on my 8BA. I am using a Navarro 471 blower intake and being the neatnik that I am, I trimmed the gasket back against the manifold to look more detailed. As a result I created at least 2 vacuum leaks, I couldn't see them but they were there. I removed the intake and installed a new gasket and did not trim it this time. Used a small amount of high temp RTV to basically set the gasket so it didn't move when I dropped the intake with the blower and carbs attached. It runs perfect now.

Keep chasing your demons, you'll catch them. And no, I cant see warping a flathead because you lifted it with a chain from the intake bolts. Looking forward to hearing you figured it out.

 

My first suggestion is that you throw more money at it. Money trumps diagnosis every time.

Don't use silicone as a sealant for intake manifolds. If anything use gasket shellac, come in a little brown bottle with an Indian head on it, or use copper coat if it is a shim gasket. To rectify your problem buy yourself a bottle of denatured alcohol and clean the hell out of the gasket and start over.

Chances are that you did not ruin your block, your old bolts probably just gave up the ghost. That happens. Replacing them with stainless bolts was probably not a good idea, at least not hardware store stainless bolts. Order the proper bolts and washers. get your torque wrench calibrated and learn how to use it.

When you get past this, fix your ignition problem and drive it.

 

"Order the proper bolts and washers. get your torque wrench calibrated and learn how to use it.

When you get past this, fix your ignition problem and drive it."

️️️️️️️

You, my friend are a hoot!

 

Beaner, why don't you stop talking trash and go away? Running your mouth and suggesting I don't know how to use a torque wrench is asinine and has no place here. You're just a jacka$$ that wants to start trouble. I'll be reporting your post to the moderation. If you don't have anything constructive to add, go fly a kite.

Also Beaner, you should take some reading and comprehension classes because I stated that I was going to pull it apart AND CHECK EVERYTHING. Also, since you don't have time or the ability to read, you'd be happy to know that I HAVE FIXED MY IGNITION PROBLEM.

 

Temper, Temper!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thank you so much for that helpful tidbit and insight into my intake leak. Your advice was both constructive and invited.

 

You would be throwing money at it to go buy a tri carb manifold at this point. Find a surface plate at a machinr shop somewhere that is large enough to check your manifold for warpage if you don't trust it.
If it isn't warped, then check for mismatch from block to manifold in port openings. If it is warped then find a shop that can/will resurface it, then check for mismatch.
Beaner likes to poke you, and all the rest of us, for that matter, in the ribs once in awhile, but there's some good advice hidden in it almost always.
I know it's frustrating, but getting pissed at people who are trying, in their own way, to help you ain't gonna help you fix the problem.

 

Maybe, just maybe, since I had already planned to buy a double, or triple manifold, I figured that rather than spending money on a 65 year old manifold getting it usable, that I would just buy the one I want in order to NOT throw money at it that will be ultimately wasted. Also, upgrading my ignition was not throwing money at it. I replaced worn out, non functional old parts with better, new, fully functional parts. You guys must never have been mechanics if you think replacing broken parts is throwing money at something. Throwing money at something would be me buying a new carb and another distributor along with maybe a fuel pump and 16 more sets of points and condensers. That would be wasting money to replace perfectly good parts because I'm assuming they are bad.

Secondly, if you want any chance for someone to listen to your advice, it's not recommended you insult them. If I said "Hey dumbass, I think you did such and such wrong." the chances you would listen are slim compared to if I said "well, I think you're on the right track, considering you said you were going to check everything out before buying a manifold, but maybe you should check these few things first."

It's basic communication. I treat others the way they treat me. If you speak to/communicate with me using respect as your guide, I'll send it back your way. If you spew jackass with every flap of your gums, simply for the point of it, I'm going to tell you where to go and how to get there. I put as much information in my posts as I can and try my best to keep them up to date, so they will be useful in the future. I read so many problem posts that are all spotty and are never resolved. I'm not going to allow people to waste time talking trash and sending out jabs. I will report every one. I want this posting to be useful in the future.

 

Well, if you're thin skinned enough to think that what Beaner and I have said to you is something to run "tattle to the teacher", then I think you're maybe gonna have a tough time here on HAMB.
I, for one, am through with this thread.