I wish I could frame a custom home on a T & M basis. Any "expert" in their chosen field should be able to provide an estimate of the final cost. I'm not saying it will end up on the agreed price, but should be fairly close or communicate to the client why it will not be. I'm not saying the OP is paying too much, just surprised by him not knowing or even having an idea of the final nut.
It's 32-3500 hours, that's man hours, to restore a nice Packard. That's a car that has good wood, minimal rust, all the parts are there and can be restored. The majority of the hours is to put a finish on everything. Engine rebuild services are additional as is chrome plating and other out sourced work. That's where my "estimate" starts on such cars. The average muscle car is right near 2000 man hours, and again all out sourced work and services additional. I don't know what the reason would be to doubt the time to do something 100% right. How many hours do some of you have in your hot rod? You guys who do your own finish work, do you slop it out as fast as you can or focus on your sense of what "right" really is? Why does a pro get looked upon as unreasonable? It isn't and I still say I'd challenge anyone to do the highest quality finish possible in less time. You can't, that simple, or you haven't had the opportunity to do it so it's meaningless and unfair in your mind. My bro in law can't understand it either but he's been 30 years in a commission body shop. Old habits die hard, and frankly "body shop" quality wins nothing but a paycheck. And that's not even a crumb of disrespect, it's just how it is. Until you see your work on the greens at Amelia Island, Pebble Beach or Meadowbrook/St John's you may never "get it". On a happy note there's enough for everyone in this shit. Even hack rat shit work has a place too, just not my place.
Don't expect to get the money you put into the truck out of it when you go to sell it. Most guys think that their car or truck is worth every dollar they put into it. That ain't the case.
Two old guys sitting on a bench, both down and out, One looks at the other, and says "when I had my body shop, I had the lowest prices in the area," Better to have One guy working with you, than to have 2 working for you. I would rather to be paid weekly, than to be Paid weakly..
Well, $50k has come and gone... and the truck still isn't done. It's just funny because I keep thinking it'll be finished by the next time I go visit, but it never is. Naturally, I'm starting to wonder if this has all been worth it. But now I have a new issue I'm not sure about. The shop just moved to a different part of the same building they were already in. Now, out of the blue, the rate on the invoices I'm receiving is now $65/hr (up from $60/hr). I was never notified there would be an increase. Is it appropriate for the shop to do this mid-project?
No it isn't, and not if they didn't notify you 1st. Some places just do it, but maybe you need to talk to who sold you the work and see if he knows it's being done. If someone else is doing billing they might have assumed it was ok. Me personally, I continue the work at the hourly rate I agreed to do it for. I have a job in here $10/hr less than all the rest, and no, we don't ignore it in favor of others that pay more. Some state regs differ but I think you have to agree to the rate increase or else their "contract" with you is void and they breached, not you. Do you like the work? Is it worth an extra $200/week to you? For what you and the shop have accomplished together they should honor the experience and remain at their original rate, especially since it's nearly done. The only time an increase is acceptable (to me) is if one service is 'X'/hr and others are 'Y'. A dealer body shop rate is about $45 but mechanical service is $95. Make sense?
When mechanical rate was $16.00 body shop rate was $18.00 WTF happened? This all got changed by big money when they set a fixed amount they would pay for repair (X) and you would divide that by the hourly rate (Y) that would give you the flat rate hours(Z) If you look back you will see that (X) has not changes in 30+ years. But on the outher hand look at material, it's doubled in the last 4 years. When the door was $10.00 per. hr. (About the late 60 early 70). We charged $1.00 for paint materials and made $ on them. Look at material cost today and the labor cost. Now you know why there are so many unskilled people doing bodywork. Highlander and Paintguru are right listen to them. I'll get off my soap box. Thanks for reading my rant Frank
"...doubled in the last 4 years..." Where? I wanna buy from that place! Materials have risen nearly 400% in less than a decade. I almost needed Depends when my jobber told me that PPG DDL 9300 Black (lacquer) was $389.00/gal. Not long ago I bought a gallon of lacquer for $140.00 and thought that was excessive! All of it, sandpaper, tape, solvent, polishes and finishing products, all now very expensive. I have to pass those costs to the client, and I don't inventory any of it or mark it up. I essentially get a quote and have them buy it. No questions, arguments, no additional office expense and personal property tax, don't have to collect sales tax. It's just one way to keep my shop rate affordable and fun for the clients. Too much $$$$$ just takes the fun, the "juice" of building something, out of the equation. Done right you build more than the car, you build a lifetime of friendships. This is tough enough without having to worry about money.
Depends how much money you have. Someone trying to balance their life with a few hard earned income bucks are more conservative with their treasures than a guy with unlimited cash. I have seen a lot of wealthy guys drive perfect one off cars like I drive my work truck. When I was showing my products in a booth at the same NSRA show as another outfit. I asked the guy if he could move his car out of the isle so I could drive my truck and trailer out of the building. The guy said sure with a big smile and jumped in with nothing but a pair of shorts on and dirty sweat rolling off of his body from setting up their display, and moved the car out of my way like it was nothing. The car he moved was Boyd Coddingtons 57 Chezoom.
About materials. anything with 3M on it will be high as shit. Bought a tube of seam sealer lately? And I don't change the hourly rate in the middle of a job. Lippy
You know I refuse to sell 3m, my wife sells seam sealer locally for like $12 tube, I was shocked to see 3m cost over $30. As far as the rate going up, I am all for my fellow body men and painters making a decent wage, and I understand stuff comes up in a restoration that cost extra, but going up on the rate, sounds odd. If you don't feel comfortable with the situation, Find another restoration Guy and take him with you next time and let him give you a quote to finish. Or even get his advice after seeing it in person. There is nothing worse than having a falling out towards the end of a build, but it happens a lot because the owner is getting impatient because he's ready to ride, and the techs are tired of seeing the same old pile of shit day after day (speaking from their perspective). I hate it for you, but remember it's business. You want your truck done, so speak up if there is something you don't like whether it's body work, or labor rates. You are a good paying customers so they should listen. Sent from my SM-N920V using H.A.M.B. mobile app
I was hoping that was the case. Good for you. That shot looks really nice. Would love to see the whole thing.
Well looks like they are definitely doing a good job. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
If the rest of the truck is as straight and perfect as the seams and panels shown in the picture of the box corner, then it was worth every penny. Good Luck and keep posting pictures.
Mattilac --> I see they have the color on the truck and it looks great! It looks like they are almost done.
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