Projects 1940 Ford Tudor Frame Off Rebuild

I am about to start a rebuild of my 40 Tudor, so I thought a new thread would be helpful as I progress, since I know I will need advice on an ongoing basis. The original frame is too far gone to use (I can’t plate the car as it is), so I have bought a replacement and it has been blasted, repaired and primed.

I plan to have an open drive shaft connected to a T5 and a Ford 8.8” rear. I have the center section kit and will split the wishbone. I hope to use a few of the original parts for the front suspension, if I can get the ride height and stance that I want. I have bought a new Chassis Engineering Rear parallel leaf spring kit to hold the 8”.

The flathead in the car runs well, but needs some cosmetic help. I have an Edelbrock 3x2 intake and three rebuilt Stromberg 97’s, with progressive linkage.

My first issue is wheels and tires. I want the big and little look, with 16” wheels. There will be disk brakes in front (and maybe in back as well), and I have read that the added width from the brakes may affect the wheel clearance when turning. And I don’t know if wheel offset is an issue with the brakes.

So, here is where I need help – can I get all I want in the wheel/tire/brake combo, or do I have to trade off something?

If I can get the wheels and tires sorted (600R16 in front and 700R16 in the rear), the plan is to get the rest of the stance right by using a 4” drop front axle and a 1” blocks to drop the rear. Will this be enough to be noticeable?

I know that this has been done before, so feel free to chime in anytime with thoughts and war stories. Nothing beats experience, and you guys seem to have it in spades.

 

I am glad you were able to obtain a replacement.What is wrong with the original frame?A 4" drop axle will very definitely be noticeable. How much lowering block you want needs to wait until you can move the rear end of the car up and down with a jack and a mounted tire set in the wheel well and see how it looks.Anyway thats how I would do it.

 

The frame has rusted through in a few places and poorly repaired. In Ontario a mechanic has to certify it as a roadworthy vehicle., and it won't pass. Not an issue as I was going to put in all new suspension parts, and using an old rusted frame would be a waste of time and money.
What do you think about the wheel size?

 

Watching.

 

I don't know how low you want it but a 4" dropped axle isn't enough in my opinion. 4"'drop is actually only 2" over stock. To go lower you can take some leaves out of the spring and reverse the main leaf.

Also, a buddy just did a CE parallel leaf kit and it needed more than a 1" drop I think he might've used 3-4" blocks. Again, it all depends on what you want.

 

As for wheel size, I'm running 500/525 16 in the front and 750 16 in the rear. It all depends on how much drop in the suspension you want to what size tires to use.

 

I like 16" wheels but wheel size\type is a personal thing,what looks good to you may be dreadful to someone else.I cannot say about the disc brakes as I have never used them on an old car.What do you have for wheels? Just curious.I have a Model A framed speedster going together and I have a set of 16' Ford steelies on it.

 

Canuk40, It is good to see another 40 build thread on the HAMB! You should soon have a good size group following your build. Originally I used the 4' drop 40 axle on my 40 along with reversed eye Posies spring. I also used a disc brake kit. I chickened out at the last minute and put Posies standard spring on the axle before I drove the car. It looked to me that I just did not have enough clearance between the tire and fender for tight turns. (not to mention the grill chin pan).

I really like the stance of Dan Hay's 40 and his wheel and tire choices. I hope they work for him. There have been some good HAMB threads on tire size,ride height,and suspension choices in the last few years I suggest you do a search and read through them before investing in your suspension components. I will be following your build good luck and have fun!

 

I have some watched threads I will copy and past for you on suspensions.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...axle-spring-installation-tech-article.292075/

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1940-ford-front-spring-ride-quality.964002/

 

Last one for now.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/lower-the-40-ford.777719/

 

Did you explore the possibility of a different wheel offset? Of course, that would still leave you chin pan vulnerable to scraping. In your case, do yo still have the reverse eye unit or did Posie exchange?

 

@The 39 guy I used a narrowed axle to give more fender clearance.

 

I had already painted the spring which makes it ineligible for exchange. So yes I still have it. As to wheel offset I remember there being very little clearance between the tire and steering arm with the wheels I am using. So I assumed the only way I could get more offset would be to go to a narrower wheel. Since I didn't want to buy different tires and wheels I decided to try this set up for awhile. If you are interested in the spring send me a PM and I will look up the part number to see if it will fit your axle. My spring fits a stock width 40 axle and uncut wishbone.

I actually had a narrow axle ( I think it was a 1936 axle) with a modified wishbone for awhile and mistakenly assumed was wrong for the car. I sold it before I realized that I had the right set up for the ride height I was looking for..... Even though my car is not as low as I would like for esthetics I am quite happy with the handling of the car so far. I also enjoy being able to enter driveways and drive over speed bumps without concern of damaging a chin or scraping the undercarriage.

I have an OT 39 ford convertible that is really low. I love the car and it's stance but I do have to pay close attention to road hazards and it can be pain in the butt some times when I can't enter a parking lot because of the hazards.

I forget Dan, which axle did you use?

 

Chassis Engineering 47" axle, and Posies spring that is made for the narrower perches.

 

Some times I feel like all I build are 39/40 Ford, I've had more of them in my shop in the last 4 years then all other cars put together. My standard formula on 40s is a drop axle, reverse the main leaf and pull a couple leaves out, how many depends on final weight, gotta drive it a bit, let it settle in and add or subtract from there. Always an original ford axle that I have dropped. They always sit low, just enough to keep from being totally annoying bottoming out on the bumps and pot holes (1 to 1 1/2" from cut down bump stops). I Usually run either a 4 1/2 wide stock Ford rim up to a 5' aftermarket max, never had fender to tire issues with drums. Did one with disk brakes, yeah, makes a difference. Had to get the Wheel Kid to offset my rim inwards as much as he could on a 5" steely, maybe 3/4" and I was good to go. On the rear leave your U bolts long and wait till it's done, then fine tune the stance, 2" blocks would probably do it and still be able to use the back seat, FWIW I always build Tudors a little higher in the rear then I do coupes, I think the Tudors look better with a little more rake but then that's just my opinion.
Good luck with your build, can't go wrong with a 40!

 

Be sure you get in bed with the DMV before you go too far. If they see the original frame with the new one next to it the paperwork will probably be easier (at least it would be in California).

Charlie Stephens

 

Thanks Dan! Ok I am through hijacking this thread....

 

This is my 40 that I just got on the road. Hasn't had time to settle out yet but it has the parallel leaf kit in the rear with 1" lowering block (may go to 2"), either way I have plenty of clearance over the 8" to haul the family. The front is a 4" dropped 1936 axle with stock split wishbones and a posie reversed eye spring. It is very driveable and even if the front spring settles 1/2 to 3/4" from its current height it will still be driveable.

 

Your sedan looks pretty old school cool Jesse1952! What did you use for brakes on the front?

 

I used the CE rear kit and 1 1/2" lowering blocks on the rear of my avatar and the front stock axle with split bones (CE kit ) and reversed eye main leaf. It's settled more than I wanted so I may have to go to a new spring. I'll get some decent pix tomorrow.

 

Welcome to the trenches, Canuk 40. If you intend to use the flathead, I question why you want to split the 'bones. Unless I am mistaken, that T-5 should fit in the stock X-member, thereby maintaining the front geometry that works perfectly. There is NO stress or binding no matter what street conditioms are. On the rear, there is a dual-leaf setup called the WEEDEATER that mounts the spring hangers on the inside of the frame instead of under the rails which lowers the body a few inches extra. I am starting work on my '40 2-dr so I will keep tabs on you. Good luck.

 

Man, this baby is really coming along. Good job.

 

I used aftermarket 39 Lincoln with original 40 spindles.

 

On my tudor, I couldn't have placed the T-5 correctly without splitting the wishbone. The T-5 is larger in girth and longer. If you wanted to make a new mount for the wishbone below the T-5 you could but that changes caster and hangs too low in my opinion.

 

just finished a frame off rebuild on mine stock frame w/x member added, stock radius rods, not split. combo crossmember for trans and mount for wishbones. (this setup been on car since chassis rebuilt in 1975 and no problems), added 4" drop I-beam axle, reversed eye front spring, and discs. same narrowed 9" from earlier, paralell leafs and 3" lowering blocks. running 175-15's on front and 215-15's on rear. got the stance I was wanting. did away with bumpers, and other than that stock exterior. here's a couple of shots of it.



frame as built in 1975 w/stock axle and brakes on front, m/c and slave updated. other than axle and paint still same as 1975. been good for me so no changes made.


forgot to take pictures of finished frame for 2016 build. Know mines a coupe but should give you an idea of a stance.

alan

 

Here's what I'd recommend for an experienced scrounger. A 36 axle and wishbone, and a new corresponding reversed main leaf. Drop that axle, and bend those perches for alignment after splitting the wishbones. Don't have the axle dropper stretch the axle to stock width, let it narrow up when dropping. This should keep you narrow enough to prevent tire rub.

Use some 15" steelers from a mid fifties F-100. Also I think a 6.00 front tire is too big. I like a 5.50 at the most but a 5.00 better.

If you can find some original fifties International pickup wheels they will have the 4.5" pattern and will look just like the Ford wheels, and use the same size hubcap. Should bolt right onto your modern rearend.

If you use disks on the front use the same International wheels on the front for a 4.5" pattern.

 

Hi guys - Been out of it for a while. My parts hauler decided to create misery for me, but I think I now have it running again.
I have located a 9" rear end assembly, which I am told is from a 71 Torino. I measured the backing plate to plate distance as 53". My stock rear is 51.25". So the question is - will it work? at 7/8" wider each side, I'm nervous. I have been searching for data on rear ends and it seems the distances and points measured are all over the map. (Maybe I could get a larger wheel offset, but I want to use stock looking 16" wheels with rings and a greater offset will likely mean I can't do what I want.)
Does anyone have experience with this fitment?

 

I have stock 16x4 wheels with 750 16 tires on a stock 40 rear. With those big tires, there is not an extra 7/8 between the tire and the fender. Mind you, smaller tires aren't as wide, but even so, I think that rear end might be too wide. Chassis Engineering recommends 58" wheel mount surface to wheel mount surface. What does yours measure WMS to WMS?

 

here is some ford 9" info I have compiled over the years. maybe might answer some of your questions. there is one file that has measurements on other cars and rear ends. hope this might help. as a note I am running a 9" in my 40 and also in my 55. if you can find a 9" out of a 55-57 ford wagon that is the way to go. the narrowest factory 9". an early bronco 9" is narrow but will have to change or redrill axles to 4 1/2":