Technical How do you drive with Borg Warner overdrive?

I've seen folks talking at various times about their techniques for driving with the old Borg Warner R10/R11 overdrive, but a quick search didn't find any thread specifically about driving techniques. I just got one going in my 59 Edsel, so of course I'm interested in the different ways we can use it.

Mine is wired up to a relay, so it will power the solenoid as soon as the governor gets up to speed (about 30 mph). I also have a toggle switch to turn off power to the relay, and I have the mechanical cable so I can pull it out of overdrive mode.

I've been playing around with upshifting the transmission without using the clutch, backing off the throttle when it's still in 2nd to let it go into OD, then shifting into 3rd, etc.

What do you do? and how is yours wired? Does anyone have the original relay and kickdown switch working well? Is it worth doing the work needed to wire it up for kickdown? if so, how much throttle would the switch want to be set to? (ie full throttle, two thirds, or what?)

let us know what kind of car, and maybe what rear gearing it has, too

 

I have a stock51 Henry J with overdrive. Don't know what brand. Someone has wired it to a toggle switch to lock it in overdrive. Mine has a cable to put it in overdrive. I have used it by pulling the cable before I start to drive. Then when I get it in third gear at speed I push in the clutch and then the toggle switch to power the solenoid. Works for my flat head 6 cly. My rear gear is 4.44. Don't know if this might help but that is how I've learned to use mine.

Jim

 

As far as electrical & mechanical hookup, I run them same as factory with the kickdown switch under dash or on tip of shifter. I normally always leave the cable in (engaged) for clutchless, smooth shifting, and 2nd OD in the most flexible gear you could ask for. I pull the cable when parking, but I'll also have an emergency brake of some type if forgotten.
You'll hear several opinions about how OD equipment is supposed to be used. The driving technique is an acquired skill, with some born to it & others never figuring it out ... kinda like 2 speed axles on big trucks.
And Jim, on your Henry J, you can shove the cable in & enjoy clutchless shifting under 30 MPH in town, just no braking on decell.

 

I have one on a '55 Studebaker coupe, and I wouldn't want to live without it. I can say that with authority, because I've had some problems with the overdrive through the years, and when it's not working, it is a very different car. But to answer your last question: it IS worthwhile to get all the parts of the overdrive syatem working well. It makes the whole thing work seamlessly. Mine has the standard features: a cable under the dash to positively turn the overdrive off if you don't want it, a relay on the firewall, governor on the OD housing, and a kickdown switch on the firewall, operated by the throttle. The only part that has given me trouble is the solenoid. When it is working well the whole system is marvelous.

My kickdown switch is mounted on the firewall, and adjusted so that it kicks down at nearly full throttle opening. That seems to work intuitively, since you are generally near full throttle anyway when you want to kick it down going up a hill. It would be nice, perhaps, to experiment with letting it kickdown at 2/3 or 3/4 throttle. I haven't done that, but I suspect it would make the whole thing even smoother.

Mine is a three speed with overdrive. Because I live in a hilly area, every time I leave my neighborhood, I drive up a long hill on the highway. Using the thing to imitate a five-speed while going up that hill has become routine for me, and it works well. (especially well since I have the puny Studebaker Champion flathead six in the car, which has enough power to drive easily with overdrive, but really labors without it.)

GOing up that long hill, I start in first, shift to second, then second overdrive, then shift up to third overdrive, but immediately use the kickdown switch to drop down into third (standard) then let up on the throttle to engage overdrive in third. I get five very effective gears, and they make that climb far less taxing.

When you use all five ratios, the gear spacing is not evenly spaced. Second overdrive and third standard are similar ratios, but they ARE progressive, and they work well together every time I climb that hill. Pulling onto the highway from a stop, and climbing a long hill from the bottom like that is the only time I use all five ratios. Usually, once you reach highway speed, it's just a matter of shifting back and forth from third to third over and back as you climb hills.

Another useful thing I've learned is that second and second overdrive are the perfect ratios for driving the entire distance on the winding dirt road from my house to the highway. I start in first, shift to second, then just leave it in second gear for three miles of twisting dirt. The overdrive drops out automatically when I slow for a corner, and after I accelerate away from the corner in second standard, the overdrive is the perfect gear until the next corner. I rarely use the clutch or shifter in that entire distance.

I find I use mostly second gear and OD around town too, though my town has far fewer stoplights than most.

I'm fortunate (living in a hilly area) that my car also has the optional "hill holder" feature that keeps you from rolling backward as you pull away from a stop when headed uphill. I cannot believe that it has not become a standard feature on EVERY car. It's THAT good.

 

I didn't know about the clutch less shifting. I'll try it

Jim

 

I dunno about the 'clutchless' part. You can do that, but I killed the overrunning clutch in the OD that way 'back in the day'. I was told by the crusty 'old guy' that I got my 'rebuilt' transmissions from that not using the clutch was the cause. He also warned against speed-shifting these as the syncros weren't all that robust and if leaving OD enabled all the time, bad syncros wouldn't be noticed... until the overrunning clutch failed again. I didn't listen the first two times he told me that, I still remember him when I went back for trans number three and he said 'gonna listen this time kid?' I did, and quit having issues with them...

When it fails, you have four speeds of neutral by the way...

I drove mine the way Ford intended; with all stock wiring in place and I left the OD cable 'in' unless going down a longer steep hill, then I manually locked out OD for engine braking (ran out of drum brakes a few times by not doing that...). 'Splitting' gears was more trouble than it was worth IMO; the difference between 2nd over and 3rd standard is less than .5 in final drive ratio.

 

Jim, I just love the BW Overdrive in my 55 Chevy. It is wired like it left the factory and works like that since I replaced the glass fuse in the relais on the firewall. It has a kickdown switch at the carb and a hand lever under the dash. I never touch the lever, it is always in. Descending a very steep long hill it´d make sense to deactivate the OD, but other than that I´m drive in OD-mode all the time. Stock gears in the rear are 4.11, but it feels more like a 3.2xx something in OD.
I rarely use 1st gear at all, maybe starting from a dead stop on a steep hill going uphill. I always start in 2nd, and going from stop light to stoplight in traffic , I just let off the throttle at about 20mph, and the 2 OD is in.In free flowing traffic I don´t use 2nd OD but shift to 3rd very early, the 235 torque can handle that quite easily.It pulls well up to 45-55 in 3rd std , then I just let off the throttle for a moment to activate OD . It is also possible to cruise at 30 mph in OD, slower than 20mph and the OD will automatically switch off...
Even my girlfriend Dani loves to drive the Chevy daily. She says that for her driving the old Chevy 3 speed OD is a lot easier and way more comfortable than driving her 10 year old BMW 320 with 6 speed std... That girl has style, I´ll keep her, just like the Chevy, hahahahaaha
We just found a 52 suburban for her, and I have a second 3 speed OD transmission in the stash for her.
you can tell what she is thinking about letting me drive...

 

I can't believe squirrel is asking a question instead of answering one, there's a HAMB first!

 

You know, if someone like Jim knows all about Gassers , blowers and overall hi performance,it´s no wonder he doesn´t know a lot about our lame sixxer with granny 3 speeds... Low performance seems to be his new interest, hahahahahaa
It´s like asking god about his favourite sin...

(note to myself: maybe I´ll try dating an ugly girl next time)

 

On my 55 Ford half ton, I ran with OD all the time but my kick down switch was not under the throttle, it was off to the side so I could kick the trans out of OD without flooring the throttle, this made a gentle kick out. Drove that truck cross country a couple of times and got 21 mpg without any trouble ever. Wish I still had that truck.

 

In OD Packard models I just left it in too. Never had to climb a grade or worry about going down after, but pulling the cable out for that would make sense. Dad and other old-timers would say to either let off the throttle or push to the floor before moving the cable from 1 to the other, then lift and get back in to normal. I can't fully recall when to floor it, going in or going out...? What's the owner's manual say? Might find a page online with a google books search.

 

Jim

Hope this helps: A scan out of the owner's manual from my Dad's '50 Mercury.

Pete

 

How will the OD react if your using an HEI ignition. Will the pause in the ignition system cause the module to fail? The relay kills ignition power for a second when engaging.

 

Every stock setup I ever had it took full throttle to kickdown

 

Looks like Ted spent some time in medium/ heavy trucks with "two sticks"- progressive and 3rd over give it away. Many of them with an extra trans, an auxiliary or commonly called a Brownie ( Brown-Lipe ), and there's a learning curve. Many of the 5 speed main trannys have an overdrive which is a small increment, while the Brownie has a larger increment, so you either figure out, or and old guy takes pity on you and tells you, that you can get a very nice ratio progression from going 3rd, 3rd over, 4th, 5th, then shift Brownie into OD and backshift main into 4th, then 5th over. My favorite setup was the Mack Quadruplex, which was their own trans that worked like a 5x4 setup with a main and Brownie, but in one trans with two sticks- with a little practice, one could make it sound like you were shifting a Roadranger. Mack had it going on, also made their own rearends, nearly indestructable with posis- I used to haul D8 Cats around up into the hills of Napa Valley with an RL700L Mack with a Quad and Mack rears, and went up some ridiculously steep hills, stop at the bottom, unchain the kitty and crawl it up on the trailer gooseneck so the tires wouldn't spin, put it in low-low, and be patient, it's gonna be a reeeel slow trip

 

I have one of the OD's behind a flathead from a 52 or 53 Ford in my pile of stuff to use someday. I've never driven it, I'm just in to find out what you learn. Good Luck!

 

Mine is wired as original. I never pull the cable out. I have a 3:90 rear end(want 3:55's), almost always use 1st(habit and easier on the clutch), usually 2nd, 3rd, let off for OD. If putting around town I will use 2nd OD. It is an absolutely wonderful transmission.

 

My dad has several cars with the BW overdrive. He never did much split shifting with them, usually went through the gears and the pushed the OD handle in, let of the gas a bit and into overdrive. If you can find the parts, the kickdown switch works real nice. Also a couple things: never try pulling the OD handle out when the car is going down the road in overdrive. Also get in the habit if always having the car in reverse when it's parked. If you have the OD handle in and have in in low went it's parked it can roll backwards due to the one way clutch in the OD unit.

 

it is nice to have the kickdown functional, but those mounted beneath the foot feed are often rusted and non-functional. I just use a toggle switch. I have even used the cigarette lighter as a switch. Pull the power and replace it with a ground. Wire it into the OD system. Push the lighter in to cause momentary ground, allow the OD to kick in.

 

I didn't only ask for me, I was hoping for these neat stories....we can all learn something here. Thanks!

 

Good info! I am getting ready to install a factory OD into my 53 Ford convertible which has a standard 3 speed at the moment. I will get a Ford operators manual, so that I can see how they say to drive them. I removed this unit from another car, so I have the cable, firewall relay, foot switch...everything I believe.

 

my Henry J has the original 4.55 rear gears W/OD
leaving the over drive cable on (or pushed in)
or on all the time ... it engages after 30MPH
by letting off the gas (it shifts itself) into OD...

 

even I spoke out on a fix in the wrong (yes i was typing out an answer in the WRONG) .
the combined knowledge in the HAMB is / a force to be reckoned with.
we ALL have areas of pure expertise.
I was challenged once buy a internet commando and during the ( his bashing of me)
i asked if he would call me on the phone , why you ask because on the phone (or live in person)
ya don't have time to go out and youtube / internet the answer to make yourself LQQK good.
ya he hung up... couldn't answer my questions... so normally i do not BASH others, while they're only trying to HELP.
QUOTABLE QUOTE from me " I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING"
I'm seldom wrong but i'm never right or was that the other way around
"I'm seldom right but i'm never wrong"...lol boys
have a GQQD day enjoy life ... peace out...

 

When I was in college back in the early 60's I had a 1953 Mercury more door (if it had been a 2 door I probally would still have it - now I really wish I had that old more door back) that had overdrive. The kick-down switch failed (shorted out so it would not go into overdrive) so I wired in a push-pull switch and mounted it in the cigarette lighter hole. It was a lot of fun since I now had 2 speeds in every gear. That old 3 speed overdrive took a lot of abuse with out failing. Did I say I miss that old Mercury?

 

We used to use an OD like a splitter but it doesn't really work as well that way as you would think. They are best used engaged when you reach high way speed has been my experience with them.

 

Using one as a splitter all depends on your ratios. I had a OD unit out of a 3 spd Galaxie in my '51 Ford F1. The difference between 2nd over and 3rd was completely negligible and not worth the effort to switch between gears. That unit was simply hooked up with a toggle switch. Get up to 60 mph or so, flip the switch, take my foot off the gas momentarily, and it would be running in OD when I put my foot back on the gas. I would always turn the switch off right away (too afraid of burning the solenoid, I guess) so as soon as I lifted again, it would shift out of OD. Out where I live, there is little to no traffic, and lots of straight empty roads, so not much reason to lift very often.

With my dad's '49 Packard, the OD is completely automatic. (It actually has a vacuum actuator on the clutch linkage that will operate the clutch for you with a push of a button, so all you have to do is jiggle the lever on the column to shift gears, but that is another story). That Packard will automatically shift into OD as soon as the governor is engaged. Usually will go from 2nd to 2nd Over automatically, and then you shift into 3rd Over. The big straight 8 has more then enough bottom end torque to accomplish the jump effortlessly. It is so smooth and quite you hardly even know that it shifted, it truly is a pretty cool setup.

 

I built my Model A Tudor with a 350 and the old 3 spd/O.D. and for the most part I was very happy with it. I got the whole set-up, from flywheel to yoke, for free years ago and waited for a chance to use it. The kickdown worked but I don't ever remember using it after the initial shakedown runs. I bought the handbook from Speedway and wired/installed everything like a factory '56 Chevy. I used my old '57 Ford manual for set-up/troubleshooting help also. My only irritation was that the governor let it shift into overdrive too early for the slow, windy roads near my house. 30-35 mph would have been better, it enabled at about 25. I was going to tinker with the governor and gearing but ended up trading the car away before I got to it.
The new owner promptly pulled all the stick shift stuff and installed a TH350. I know where it's sitting if someone wants it, I'm sure he'd be glad to sell it, ha, ha.
I only shifted without the clutch occasionally to show my wife how cool the old car stuff was, and I never beat on it - I fixed enough of those old boxes when I was young to know that the guts might as well be made of glass. I just enjoyed that clunk and the RPM drop when we got it on the hiway.

 

Well, it's a rare day at the HAMB when I don't learn something new. I had never heard that you can shift gears without the clutch while the overdrive is engaged. Since I also learned that doing it eats the over-running clutch in the OD, I'm glad I never heard!

 

Somebody's telling stories about the shifting w/o clutch wearing parts. If under 23 - 30 MPH, depending on the governor, it has not closed the relay, thus it freewheels with no load on anything in the drivetrain. Personally, I've driven at least half dozen Ford & Chrysler products, and a bunch of '55 - '68 Chevrolets in this style, & have never had a failure of any OD related part other than electrical.
Others with a more aggressive driving style may have more trouble than I do.
I think the bottom line on this subject is that some people just shouldn't have an OD equipped car.

 

Edsel Roundup wagon.

Not the actual original O.D. setup as I have replaced all of the original parts with N.O.S. stuff.

Wired as the factory built it - so its an original setup with all new parts. Pretty much all of necessary O.D. items are reproduced.

Works really well but I dont do any fancy shifting and just drive it as intended.

Rear is a 391.

Good tow car!

This is a car that I had a Petronix installed in the distributor and cooked it.May have cooked it due to the O.D. shorting out. Never bothered to figure out why.
Went back to points and all has been good !

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