Technical Questions about T-bucket handling

You can buy a tubular dropped trans mount/member from Summit or Speedway or any number of other shops.
Drag link seems to be close to parallel (to ground). How much play in steering? Shouldn't be much.
I'm not seeing any bracing on the front spring mount to axle tabs?? Doubt that is causing the squirreliness, but thought I'd point it out.
Since it is a straight axle, you can do a very rough "check" of toe-in by spinning the front tires and marking a pencil line near center all the way around. Tape measure from mark to mark on the front and rear of tires at same distance from the ground. The front measurement should be 1/8 - 1/4" less than measurement at rear of front tires.
Once you get toe-in close, you can drive-check for caster (Do spindles lean rearward a few degrees) by letting go of steering wheel to see if car tries to go straight on flat road. Caster is what tries to center steering after a turn.

 

The drivers side steering arm to spindle looks like something is crazy. Got another picture of drivers side spindle and steering attachment?? Is that a right hand spindle on the left side?

 

I see a bunch of questionable mounts [meaning lightweight] , other than that , go over all the suspension component , look for loose /binding/sloppy fixtures & fittings. verify that wheel bearings are tight , spin the wheels , brakes not grabbing , tire inflation , steering box tight , those sort of things , measure the toe-in , should be about an 1/8" in, by all means address that trans "mount"[seriously ?] We can walk you thru "squaring up " the chassis..
dave

 

Interesting pics. Am I seeing a straight axle from something with parallel leaf springs there? At least with hairpins you can correct a lot of evils that might be there. You should be able to get the wheelbase the same on each side and correct the caster. The tie rods are behind the wheels making it easier to fix any Ackerman problems. It looks to me that the bracket that connects the panhard bar to the frame in the rear, could be braced a bit. A lot of front end problems start at the rear of the car.

 

...where is the panhard bar on the front ?..miller

 

It doesn't have one. Didn't know it was supposed to.

Yes, the axle is from a mid-sixties Chevy or GMC van, as far as I could figure.

Here you go, hope it's not too dark:

 

Here's a better shot of the spindle.

 

Drag link steering doesn't need one, cross steering does as it tries to push the lightweight car sideways.

I couldn't see the steering box that well, but it looks like the pitman arm is pointed up from the bottom of the frame, I bet that bumpsteer is a major part of the issue.

 

It's a brand new Flaming River non-reversed Corvair box. I don't know if I have bump steer or not, since I'm not sure what it feels like. I'm sure if I hit a pot hole and the steering wheel was yanked out of my hands I'd know it, but I don't know what it feels like in its subtler form, like driving down a slightly rough road with cracks and patches on it.

I'd put a steering damper on there, just because it's a cheap band-aid solution. I realize I should get the car properly dialed in, but I'd rather have a half-assed repair than none at all in the meantime. Unfortunately, I don't think a damper would fit, because my tie rod looks like it's too fat for the clamp.

 

Bumpsteer is basically as you are driving down a road as the axle moves you are constantly "correcting" the steering with the steering wheel back and forth.

Every car I have ever driven with that type of steering (usually Ford boxes) were a bear to drive with the bumpsteer issues.

 

Bumpsteer is as you'd expect , when you hit a bump the car tries to change direction , I don't see that as a problem on yours....
dave

 

I know of two T buckets that run similar axles but the install on both is a lot better thought out than this one. Both run serious engines and get with the program but were built by a family that has built a number of quick drag cars.
I'd go back and check every rod end and tie rod end for any sloppiness that might be there. There is a chance that the builder used some used parts that were already a bit worn when the car was put together.
While I would put gussets on the tabs that are welded to the axle to mount the spring I don't see any need for a panhard bar on the front.

I'm with Marty in that the trans support doesn't add any stiffness or strength to the chassis and the back of the trans may actually be bouncing a bit going down the road due to a spring action with that piece of flatbar holding the trans. Even one of the universal tube crossmembers would help there along with cleaning up that part of the car a lot.

 

Blow it apart and fix it.

 

Forgot to mention , check the kingpins..
dave

 

How is the front spring attached to the axle? It looks like someone welded a flat vertical tab onto the axle and then welded a bolt to the shackle and bolted the shackle to the tab sideways?

I have to wonder if that mount makes the axle square or not, that is a super odd setup. Try measuring from axle center to center, front to back, both sides of the car to see if the wheelbase is the same on both sides. If it's off, you might be dog-tracking while you're going straight.

And that steering arm, is it supposed to look like that? Looks like a huge cast job got heated and bent a very big distance to make it fit, I can't believe it was designed that way, unless I'm seeing an odd angle.

 

The pitman arm seems oddly clocked as well, assuming the wheels are straight when that pic is taken. Will it steer further in one direction than the other?

 

Drag link is parallel to ground. Should be no bump steer.

 

Some good info here, if you could borrow a narrow tire and wheel combo for the front for a tryout, that might solve some of the problems. Wide front tires tend to magnify problems, on a marginal steering setup.

 

Thanks, that should be a fairly easy partial solution. I have a narrow set that came with the car that I can slap back on.

Yes it does, but just a bit, and I have so many other problems with this car that I haven't tried to correct it.

 

radius rod brackets-too thin and instead of tapering holes to match tie rod ends used,it appears that a tapered slug was used as a spacer on the back side of the bracket?don't see that the slugs are welded to the bracket.could cause front and back movement of the axles.
the rear panhard busing shown in the one photo shows red dust from rust,possible bind
front shock mounts-no bracing and too thin,probably flexing instead of shocks working
pet peeve-driveshaft welded together out of phase-won't affect handling,but can cause vibration and fast u-joint wear
general poor welding all over but hasn't broke yet[crosses fingers]

 

Judging from your pictures of the underside, it might be a Model T frame. The front part of it has been boxed, as has the rear part. But the middle half or so of it appears not to be boxed. Model T frames were intentionally designed to flex, so they acted as part of the suspension system. When T's were new, there weren't many roads, and T's were driven everywhere Through fields, across ditches, everywhere. Henry couldn't build in enough spring travel for those conditions, so he made the entire car part of the suspension. If you have frame flex, as you mentioned early on, you'll need to at least box the rest of the frame, and also add some other stiffening members to it as others have suggested. Hot Rod frames should not flex.

 

more notes-doesn't look like enough caster,and the position of the tie rod passing through the radius rods doesn't allow more caster to be adjusted in.too little caster can make a car a real handful
another note that may cause some disagreement is on a small light car I think a small amount of toe-OUT [1/8 to 1/4] vs more common toe-in makes the car more stable

 

That front steering arm looks pretty sketchy.

I agree, based on all the pictures I wouldn't drive that car.
A poorly built cobbled together affair that is not very safe.

It's no surprise that the handling is scary.

Scary what some people put together.
Fred is right.

 

First thing I would be Doing is making a drag link steering arm that has two points of mounting, example like the cheap chrome one speedway sells for $20.00 that single bolt Scare's the shit out of me just sit'n here!

 

Caster, caster, caster 5-7 degrees IMO

 

Yes, that transmission crossmember looks to be bent. The front tires look questionable.

 

looks like its been driven a lot I think your answer is behind this post, this is not your answer, but if those shocks have lots of miles maybe buy some new ones.

 

One vote against above toe-out suggestion. Mark and measure what it is now. If toed out change to toe in and test.
Is there any steering slop? (Steering wheel motion that DOES NOT move the left spindle) Does right spindle move w/left with no slop in tie rod ends?

 

Yep! You need caster, positive caster.

 

That steering arm/spindle is stock van setup , I agree it's ugly , but I doubt it's a problem.
dave