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Hydromatic Gurus... Hydro in a Hot Rod-Linkage- Who has done it?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Evel, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Evel
    Joined: Jun 25, 2002
    Posts: 9,038

    Evel
    Member
    1. 60s Show Rods

    So I got Live Wire at Astromotive and Mitch and I were talking about the proper linkage that
    is found stock on the caddilac... The linkage to the carb down to the fluid throttle linkage on the hydro.

    Right now I have a Cruise Control leaver that is mounted under my seat that I can adjust
    the fluid lever by turning the knob.. the shifts ok but I still think it can be better... I basically have it set to a somewhat sweet spot... this is what a few old timers told me
    they did...

    But I would like to get better performance out if it,,, right now it shifts into 2nd very quick..
    I don't know if thats how hydros are but ya... I wanna do a burn out and I want it to work right...:D

    so I want to know what some of you guys that ran hydros in your Hot Rods what you did for that.. also with a multi carb set up..

    Just trying to get some possible ideas...I know i'm not the only one that is running a Hydro,,,am I?

    Oooow what I would do for a B+M shifter...

    Gracias....

    evel
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2009
  2. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    If I read your thread correctly, you are using a lever to control the TV lever on the transmission. WRONG! The TV lever must be connected to accelerator linkage to work correctly. If you continue to adjust yourself, you will burn the hydro out and fast. If you want to keep the hydro in first longer you might try and adjust the TV rod (from carb) a little tighter (or shorter as they put it) but only a little. If too much the transmission will hunt when it tries to shift and that isn't good either. Another way (and is preferred) is to swap the 1-2 shift valve spring with a little stronger spring. That will most surely make the trans shift a little higher. BTW: Hydros shift out of first very fast on light throttle, more delayed at heavier throttle.

    Put the TV rod back to the carb and try it.
     
  3. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Coldwar: I thought all (full size) Oldsmobiles from 61-64 used Roto 10 hydramatic (aka Slim (chances of it surviving) Jim)? You say your's used DC hydro, yes on Bonneville and I think GP, but not Olds.

    Also you shouldn't adjust the TV rod too tight as it will cause hunting during shifts.
     
  4. bobwop
    Joined: Jan 13, 2008
    Posts: 6,115

    bobwop
    Member
    from Arley, AL

    CW is the MAN!
     

  5. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Coldwar: Funny you bring up Turboglide, that is what my father ordered in our 283 equipped 59 Chevy Parkwood wagon. He read up about Powerglide vs. Turboglide and thought Turboglide was the way to go. Well he found out the hard way that in concept it had a good idea, but like Flightpitch/3T dynaflows it did not perform well. Biggest issue was that there was no way to get the transmission back to the 2nd turbine phase for acceleration during passing/climbing hills. All you had was a variable pitch stator that made the engine rev, but very little boost in acceleration. I probably would have enjoyed having the Roto over the Turboglide when I inherited the car back in 68.

    Perhaps the Rotos have just taken alot of crap from people that don't maintain them. It at least had 3 distinct speeds and you could downshift.

    Was going to put a 54 Olds dual range hydro behind the 283, but it would've cost a bundle on a high school kid's allowance. I believe the Chevy dealers still sold the pickup kit back then. Ended up putting a 3 speed stick with floor shifter. At least it moved with that in it. Turboglide went to the dump.
     
  6. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    Can you guys just get togather and write a book on hydro's?? Probably save typing in the long run!
     
  7. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Books out there are hydramatic manual by Paul Marsh. I think Kent Moore also put one out too. I have two of them, plus a very good hardback on automotive powertrains, which goes into good details of all early transmissions, driveshafts, and rear ends. Don't recall the author, but is a very good book.
     
  8. skyspop
    Joined: Sep 9, 2002
    Posts: 389

    skyspop
    Member

    I also have a 53 caddy with hydro in my coupe,I never hooked up the tv,and was thinking my trans was shot and needed a rebuild because of slipping.I never fully drove it other than around the blocks by my house,the rod that hooks up to my carb,down to the trans broke at the lever that hooks to the trans,so i left it off,thinking it would shift o.k but this is most likely the reason,I have a 55 olds tranny,and was going to try to swap,but couldny get a straight answer if they interchange or not,also,the olds kickdown is quite different,with about three pieces,and springs,where the caddy rod is just one long rod.I have been looking at photos to see how I can make the broken piece work,but no clear shot of how it attaches over the output on the trans,It slides over the column linkage,where that hooks up right?This has been the longest set back from keeping me from driving my plymouth,I moved on to other cars for now,thinking I needed a complete rebuild or bite the bullet and buy an adapter for a 350 turbo..but also reading awhile ago that the hydros are really good trans.i would like to keep it.Maybe someone has a complete kickdown rod they want to sell me?And a clear photo of how it attaches to the trans,maybe I could make mine work,I still have most of it,just not the whole rod at the end that pivots...looking forward to more on this thread....thanks Patrick...
     
  9. Evel
    Joined: Jun 25, 2002
    Posts: 9,038

    Evel
    Member
    1. 60s Show Rods

    Thanks Guys for all the info...

    I always knew that the TV had to be hooked up but I figure I would give the cable set up a try since I heard so many different stories.. And it dose work ok.. but not like it should so I gotta figure out a way to make the Tv linkage work with my 4x2 set up...

    BTW I'm running a 331 52 caddy / Hydro .. I know that Olds are similar...
     
  10. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Time to resurrect this one. I'm in a similar boat. '57 caddy 365 with matching hydra matic in my 30 Ford coupe. Edelbrock 600 carb and no cable or rod connecting it to the trans. This is a new car to me and I have limited experience with auto trannies.
    It shifts from 1 to 2 very quick, as the original poster put it, recreational tire spin is difficult. Other than the quick shift it drives and cruises very well. I would like to keep this combo , just need to tweak the 1-2 shift point. Thanks
     
  11. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Current linkage setup at trans. Round shaft is the tv attaching point I believe. It moves independent of the gear selector.[​IMG]
     
  12. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    correct

    From what little I know about these Hydramatics, I believe that each brand of car that used it, had their own linkage setup. They all did the same thing, but some were quite confusing to look at, as far as bellcranks etc.

    An old used manual on the Cad equipped one would give the best info to set one up. Could be a Cad service manual or a Motors/Chiltons, if they had a decent section on HM. Some manuals are very limited in pics
     
  13. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,817

    BJR
    Member

    What make and year engine, what year and make Hydro? Would really help to get some good responses to your question.
     
  14. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Both 1957. I didn't know that there was different makes. Did Caddy use more than one ?
     
  15. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    I'm also waiting to hear from Edelbrock and Lokar. Will update if they answer.
     
  16. Oldsmobucket
    Joined: Dec 11, 2005
    Posts: 331

    Oldsmobucket
    Member

    that probaly a jetaway trans. caddy called them a controlled coupling hydra-matic. oldsmobile called them a jetaway. not too familiar with them but i kmow the hydramatics ive had the 1 2 shift is normally quick. like f&j said id look for a caddy shop manual from 57 and adjust it from there i switched my carb on my 55 olds to a holley one time and i remember i had to reconfigure the bellcrank for the TV rod to work becaue the rochester pushed the throttle open and the holley pulledit
     
  17. Brizo
    Joined: Jan 15, 2011
    Posts: 222

    Brizo
    Member
    from Indy

    In the late '60s I built a "slant-pan" Hydro for my tri-power 389 powered "55 Catalina hard top. A local racing trans guru had told me to get a Cadillac valve body because they took off in first gear when in "low" ( other Hydros in "low" took off in second gear) Another common mod was to replace the half paper/half cork clutch plates with the tougher red waffle pattern Dynaflow plates for firmer shifts. You MUST hook up the TV linkage for the street and I don't see why you couldn't do it with a cable. Also many guys dont realize that since the hydros have a fluid coupling and not a torque converter, the trans has gear ratios like a manul trans, because of that, they didn't use tall rear axle gears either. So the shift timeing is never going to feel like other auto tranny's your used to. Back when everybody used Hydros for drag racing, they just tied the TV lever in the full throttle position and it was great--if all you drove was full throttle!
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  18. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    That sheds some light. Thanks. I'll be playing it safe and not driving it til this is sorted out.
     
  19. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Parts score !! Found a guy on a Cadillac forum who's parting out 50's Cads, only a 2 hr road trip from me. He had the '57 TV rod and trans attachment piece + an inspection cover I needed. Good day.
    I'll update when I get it installed.
    Also, I located a hydra matic guru near me that backed up what you boys said, DON'T drive it without a TV rod.[​IMG]
     
  20. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Success. Had to install and remove the rod many times to tweak it for proper length and firewall clearance. The difference in driving the car is huge. It sort of hangs up a bit on part throttle and low throttle 1-2 shift but full throttle 1-2 is good and all shifts above that are smooth as butter. I'll make some small adjustments for the 1-2 shift but it's very close.
     
  21. [​IMG]

    If you sorted it out that's great, but maybe this could help. I recently rebuilt a dual quad set up myself from a 55 Cad to use on a '60 390. Had to fab a new tv rod linkeage. This is a pic from the old single 4 barrel set up. The tv rod is simply connected to the tranny spinning on a rotating axis on the carb. It's about 1 1/8" from the center of the rotating lever, idle seems to be about 7:00 o'clock, wot seems to be about 11:00 o'clock so I added a similar sized lever to the throttleshaft of the carb, tv rod attached 1 1/8" from it's axis, rotates approx from 7:00 to 11:00, seems to shift fine, just have a way to adjust it. Good luck.

    Oh, by the way, your tv rod and access cover look the same as mine, you can see how it attached to the original Rochester carb in my photo, my trans is a Jetaway Hydramatic 4 speed stock from in a 60 Cad.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  22. Just saw you are with MotorNation, I'm a subscriber and a supporter. Good works brother
     
  23. 365window
    Joined: Apr 23, 2016
    Posts: 25

    365window
    Member

    Kickdown/TV rod working quite well now I would say......[​IMG]
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  24. I was going to say that Hyrdos shift out of first very fast but @d2_willys beat me to it. Low or first is very low in a hydro low enough that a lot of the guys that raced them put it what we would call second and let it make the 1-2 shift on its own. I'll bet if we could ask one of the old guys they would say of you want to do a proper burn out build an engine that would make a proper burnout. No offense intended here.

    Mr Willys is also correct on the adjustment of the rod. I am not sure about a B&M tranny mine has a little handle on the top that can be tightened and loosened. As for "hot rod" shifters Ansen made a good one. They were pretty simple, a handle that was moved through a gated plate. Some didn't have the plate or at least I have seen them both ways.

    Anyway not trying to ad to what D2 had to say other than for confirmation. If or when I get that far I am going to try and talk him into playing transmission with me. ;)
     

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