Technical REVISITED: Shoebox hood hinges - GRRRR

So I have a Body Shop manual that covers 46-50. It shows Body exploded view each part with part numbers. So it shows Convertable body complete firewall and windshield opening the same for 49-50. In the sedans it shows lower firewall same 49-50 and roof/windshield same 49-50 with a different part number each Coupe, Sedan and 4 doors but all the same below the pinch weld. Looking at the Hood skin, it's listed without hinge brace. It shows different part numbers for 49 skin and 50 skin. Now that could simply be due to different holes for badges, I don't know. However I'm wondering if the folded edge is different also between the 49 and 50 hood making it taller from brace flange to the skin. Before I'd stack that many washers I'd make a spacer out of plate or??? .
The Wizzard

 

I see part of your problem with the spacers. 49 hood seems to have a step right where the brace mounts on the lower flange by the 1/4" holes. 50-51 hoods DO NOT have the step. My hood measures 15/16" full length of the vertical flange. I believe that's partly why you have so many spacer washers.
The Wizzard

 

In other words 49 and 50 skins are not folded the same front to back.

 

You are correct on the skin.... because when I was sliding the bracket into the skin, only the front and rear holes line up, and the "edge" for the rear-most bolt to mount has no hole, and the edge is too short to drill a new hole. So there is only one hole (frontmost) that lines up. PLUS, the welded capture nuts other than the front one doesn't line up at all. The most rear hole has no capture nut on it either. AND I had to get the rubber hammer out to get the bracket to go into the skin, but on the '49 bracket, it slid right into place just by jiggling it in...So, yes, it's definitely different......

 

Wizz.. can ya get a picture of what you are talkin' about??

 

I see it pretty clearly on page 1 of this post. Look at the photo of your hood showing the Green spring hanging. Just ahead of the forward bolt and spring you can see the lower ledge drops down looks like 1/4" to 3/8". Now look at the same place on my first photo of the passenger side. That lower flange does not have the step in it and that translates into the hood standing taller when bolted up. In other words not needing as many spacers to get the skin up where it belongs.
The Wizzard

 

Also post 16 of Channeled49 in primer. You can see the step in his hood very clear. The 50 - 51 Hood does not have that step.
The Wizzard

 

yup................I wonder why so many guys talk about changing out their hinges to '50/'51 on a '49 hood and it works out ok?.......doesn't make sense, because of this difference in the mount on the hood???

When it stops raining.........I'll get back on it........

 

Quote; ".I wonder why so many guys talk about changing out their hinges to '50/'51 on a '49 hood and it works" end of Quote.
Talk is Cheep and hear say is just that. Until you actually do something with your own hands it's just tooth chatter and bench racing. Your getting real close to being able to tell what it actually takes to get the Job done.
The Wizzard

 

Well girls and boys, I believe I found the culprit...........bent hood... AND the step in the mounting flange.... so I have TWO problems......When I bought the car, the hood hinge bracket was missing, so I never saw the hood "on" the car, except for just sitting where is was supposed to be without the hinges mounted..didn't notice the curvature... check it out....oh yeah, when I tried to set the fender, it wouldn't mount because all those washers I put under the hinge mount raised one of the arms up so far that it hits on the fender.....sooooo...2x4 and rubber hammer time, I guess...damned hood looks bent in this pic...never noticed...gettin' old, I guess..and will look into taking that step out of that mounting flange...Thanks Wizzzzz... I may never have noticed that difference..

.

 

Glad to be able to help ya out some. I learned right along with you. Old cars sure are fun eh?
The Wizzard

 

Today I'll be making a "supplemental " lip for mounting the hood hinge bracket and cutting out the original lip on the hood. Yesterday I cut a template from a 1x6 to match the curvature of the edge of the fender to get the hood fixed.

 

With the template made and clamped to the edge of the hood, I made a couple of new channels to weld in place of the old flimsy mounting area of the hood, and it's 1/4" closer to the top surface of the hood..

 

Oh well....

 

Keep us in the loop! The Wizz and I had a good phone conversation about this just a couple of days ago. I compared the two hoods I have, and I am going to use the 49 hood as it is in better shape in the front, and I`ll be changing the `step` as you are doing. So how did it turn out?

 

Pretty dang good! Thanks to the Wizz for helping figure out what the heck was wrong with this configuration. Trial fit indicates only two issues. Drivers side adjustment needs to shift the hood forward about another 1/8 inch and the rubber spacer / seal at the top of the firewall has to be in place. That little gasket holds the hood above the firewall about 3/16" and helps keep the back edge of the Hood from hitting the firewall .It also appears that it would be important to put multi layers of 3M double-sided red / Grey sticky tape on top of the hood hinge bracket. Ford had a piece of tar paper stapled to the bracket to minimize rattling and to help shape the top of the hood. So overall I'm very very pleased with the way it has turned out. Today I'll be doing some grinding and some other repairs to smooth things up for paint. If your hood is flimsy and out of shape near the rear it's easy to make a template off of the edge of the fender then clamped firmly to the edge of the hood to shape it. After shaping one side of the hood then you take those little blocks off of the template and screw them to the opposite side to give you a good position on the other side of the hood.

 

Great work on the modifications. What a pain in the ass, but I guess a necessary evil. I wouldn't rely on the cowl seal to do much at all, as far as holding the rear of the hood up, it's pretty flimsy and just smashes down. Foam "camper" tape would do better.

 

Hey Allen....!... The gasket I got from ShoeboxCentral is pretty "hard" and ANYthing that holds the rear lip just a "little bit" above the metal keeps the edge of the hood from wanting to hit the ridge at the top of the firewall.

 

Here is a link with more pics and explanations of how it was done..

https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Hood-Hinges-Retrofit-49-to-505/

 

And if anybody is doing the trunk lid hinges..here's a link to that ...

https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Hood-Trunk-Lid-Hinges-Retrofit/

 

Hmmm , my rear seal is pretty squishy (got it from Chris as well). I haven't mounted it yet (since car's just in primer) , but it doesn't seem like it would hold anything up. Maybe you got lucky, lol. I might just end up using foam tape, rather than the original stuff. It worked good while the car was 5 colors .

 

You don`t have to use 51 hinges. I have used late 70`s early 80`s Mercedes Sedan trunk hinges very successfully. Very cheap, take the same amount of work in the trunk lid itself to mount, and the mounting to the parcel shelf is very simple. These have the spring captured inside a mounting box and have the right sweep on the arm to work great. I have a few pics on my Instagram account--(kiwimetalfab) and if I could work out how to put them here, I would....

 

Interesting..... but it's all done now... $50 bucks for the hinges... Good idea, though...

 

I guess everything you went through would explain my pictures. Glad you got it figured out!

 

Didn't your hood fit a little too tight on the lip on the firewall? I notice that you still have that damned "step" in the edge of your hood. I'd say the question as to "why would you do this" seems that he's talking about the fact that you surely are not going to be able to do any adjusting on it......

 

I made the seal area deeper to has room for a rubber seal..

 

You are absolutely right. The Wizzard

 

There's always more ways to skin a cat. ....haha

 

Ah makes sense now. At the time, everything seemed to fit right. I have the front clip off right now. I'm sure I will regret it once I start to put back together. We'll see. I'm glad you got it worked out!

 

The final key to proper fit
https://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Hood-Hinges-Retrofit-49-to-505/i-5DSPxXJ/A