Technical Beginner drivetrain question

Hi guys. I am wondering what options I have for my '35 5 window coupe. It has the originally rear end in it, with no driveshaft. I have 350 SBC that I am considering using if I cannot get my hands on a Flathead.

From what I have found on here, if you stomp on the gas you will blow the rear end. I understand that much.

1. What kind of transmission options do I have with SBC and original rear end?
2. What are my options for the driveshaft & do I need a special conversion kit?
3. Is a 305 "safer" on the rear end than the 350?

 

Are you looking to go Auto or Man? A stock 350 is not a huge powerhouse as most want to believe. Most make 180-200 HP if they are in the emission years. So its not that much more than a beefed flatty. If you go with an auto, you will have even less power. The other nice thing is an auto will absorb the jerky and jolty driving that you can get when running a Manual. you will need to do an open drive conversion on the rear to accommodate most modern transmissions. so if you do this whatever driveshaft fits it.

 

Automatic would be fine for this application. If the motor was built into a 383 would it still be acceptable for this application?

I will need to research transmissions, all I know of is the 2 speed Powerglide. "Open drive conversion", okay. Thanks! I will look this up.

 

hmmmm, less power yes, but an increase in torque. And it is torque that twists shafts and breaks gears. I would agree with less shock loading though, which might make a difference.

 

I'm going to say go to a later rear axle with open drive and run your transmission of choice behind the 350.
As far as I am concerned a two speed powerglide is going totally backwards even though they have a slightly smaller case. Last one made was in 73 and then they were only in 4 or 6 cylinder cars after the late 60's. a turbo 350 is common but in this case common means easy to find, easy to buy parts for and easy to find someone to rebuild if needed.
As far as breaking stock rear ends or a compatible transmission such as a 39 Ford trans it's the lead in your right foot that breaks things an not the size of the engine. There is also a kit to hook a Jeep T-5 to the Ford torque tube that gives you over drive but you would have to hunt the info on it.

If someone hasn't already swapped over to hydraulic brakes on that car you will be wanting to swap to hydraulic brakes both front and rear and have to hunt down those parts.

Right now I'd say it's time to do some homework as to what you really want in the car, how you intend to drive it meaning mostly cruising in the local area or long road trips to far flung bucket list events and weekend driving as apposed to daily or regular driving. You can put up with some things in a car that only gets driven locally and on weekends that you might not want to with a car that you plan to throw your bag and cooler in and head out several hundred miles on road trips in on a reasonably regular basis. Then study what others have done and see what seems to work the best.

 

I see you said 383? What! You do understand that is moron right,with stock rear. Ok ,look a stock banjo is fairly strong in good shape{key is good shape} now if it's going to be changed to open drive shaft=now you took away one of the main control of rear roll/twist and the 2 stock arms left{rear bones} are not up to holding rear twist from OHV V8 well/so add to them extra bracing or replace with 4bar or alike. Other newer rear is a good idea.

 

As far as romp, stomp, & bust goes, you will find lots of opinions. I tend to listen to the ones that say just don't put fat tires on there and your traction should break loose long before your rear end blows apart.

1. Anything that will fit a SBC with or without adapters. You can adapt a Flathead transmission to SBC and keep your torque tube. You can run an old iron Powerglide with the stock adapter or a later aluminum one without (or a TH350... etc.).

2. To convert to open drive you will need a converter. Get the one from Hot Rod Works
http://www.hotrodworks.com/product-category/open-drive-conversions/

3. If you can find an early SBC like a 265 or 283 I think you'd be cruising all day, but 305's and 350's are cheap and easier to find.

 

Thank you very much for the information! Currently the car is a rust bucket, and has the original brakes. I would am aiming to build it with long distance drives in mind.

A Ford 9" rear end would be acceptable then?

I did not know. Thank you for explaining this to me.

Great info, thanks very much. I will take a look into the TH350.

 

With an original rear end you are pretty much limited to the original ('35) transmission maybe with later gears. ('39). I would go with the 305 (or smaller) but still drive carefully. The conversion kit from an early Ford transmission to a SBC is available from most speed shops. If you are going to an open drive I would suggest going with a later rear end instead of trying to do an open drive conversion to your '35 rear end. Remember once you remove the torque tube you are going to need strong brackets. How about some pictures, of the whole car and another shot of your existing rear end? The reason I ask for a picture of the rear end is that it is unusual to find an original rear end without the driveshaft in a car.

Charlie Stephens

 

Its very unusual for you to have a stock rear end BUT NO DRIVESHAFT...Are you sure its the original 35 Banjo rear end?

 

You open a real Pandora's box with such a swap... one thing leads to another very quickly. All part of the hotrod thang.. you learn as you go. And don't forget.... "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?".

 

Ok thanks. Cheers. I don't have a clearer picture, I can take one for you guys though.

Understood. I am not certain at all. Maybe you guys can ID it. I will get a better picture soon.

 

I would go with an 8" from a Maverick or a 2wd S10 rear. Both are readily available and not that expensive. you can do Parallel leaf kit on the back or 4 link depends of what you are looking to do. I would go Auto, but stay away from a powerglide if you actually want to drive the car. It will be screaming down the highway with anything less than like a 2.29 gear.

 

^^^ wbrw32 brings up a good point, something is not right here, because the 35-36 uses unique trailing arms bolted to the rear axle tubes that ALSO hold the spring shackles to the spring. So, if the torque tube was removed, there won't be anything holding up the front of those long trailing arms.

I suppose, someone could have just wired/tied them up so the car could be moved?

Your pics are not showing up

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If you go to a later rear, chassis engineering has a leaf spring kit that works well in these cars and bolts in.

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/1935-1940-ford-car-pickup/

 

Just remember that now is the time to make the rest of the drive train compatible with a modern V8 engine. This is a hot rod you're building and no matter how easy you think you're going to be on it, there will be that kid in the rusty 95 Civic " tuner " that pulls up next to you at the lights thinking he is king of the road and that is not the time to question your choice of drive trains. Always, always , over build the drive train from a strength standpoint, unless you're building a trailer queen to tow from show to show which I'm sure you're not. A SBC and a TH 350 with an 8 or 9 inch or a MOPAR 8&3/4 would be my choice. Just like this, It didn't really cost any more to beef it up early on. Just my 3 cents worth.

 

Is your drive shaft heading toward the passenger side or is that just a funny angle of that photo? Chasis looks good, clean and strong!

 

That's not correct. "Drive" in a Powerglide is 1:1, just like any other non-OD trans. It's "Low" on a Powerglide that is different, it's rather tall for a low gear. A loose torque converter can help with that.

 

That's a Mopar A body 8 & 3/4 rear and the pinion is offset to the pass. side on those. the angle of the driveshaft makes no difference at all as long as everything is square and parallel. I prefer that so that the pumpkin is centered when you see it from behind. There are a TON of posts about drive shaft angles on here, do a search. Very helpful.

 

The photos in Post 16 show it is definitely not an original rear end. I am sure the brakes in the rear end came with the rear end but I doubt it has the original brakes in front, how about some photos. Before you go to far try to figure out what it will cost when you are finished (it looks like a money pit). You might be better off starting with something more complete (maybe the missing parts are just not in the pictures) and in better shape (like less rust and having a floor).

Charlie Stephens

 

That is or was going to be....an old hot rod! I can't see enough of the rear end, but it has a yoke like Early Olds? I tried to see if the rear wheel pattern is Olds 5 on 5" but I can't tell, and the center hub on the axle shaft seems too small to be Olds?

Check out the motor mounts....anybody recognize the bolt pattern on those?

The stock 35 rear arms are there, but were run out to parallel the chassis....That won't work, as they will break from twisting stress as the car leans. It likely will break at the back ends after a while.

EDIT: I see that the rear arms were beefed up at the top rears, with a thick plate. I think this car might have been a running rod a LONG time ago

 

You are Correct my friend..

 

Can you take some pics of the motor mounts on the front crossmember..

and also get the camera up front where the radiator was, looking back at the center X tunnel where the trans was. I see it never had split front bones, so I wonder what trans they used. It may be cut out for clearance, and maybe have a rear trans mount that can be identified

.

 

More pics there for all of you guys. Thanks to everyone!!!

I have a spare frame that is solid. I am not intimidated by the metal work on the body. I plan to run this car without fenders. Ideally I want to run spoked rims, but I am not sure if I can if I use my 9 ".

 

If you mean the '35 spoked rims you can run them on the front with no problem other than they require an adapter (DON'T LEAVE OFF THE ADAPTER). The front brakes are '40-'48. Post a shot of the 6 o'clock position on the backing plates and we can tell if they are pre or post war (nice to know when you are ordering parts). As far as the wire wheels on the 9 inch rear you might want to post that question under a new thread with a catchy title so more people will see it.

Charlie Stephens

 

Cool pics... my favorite thing about hamb is seeing really old builds, and what the young guys were bolting in, so long ago.

We need more guys to ID these modified parts. Look at the very wide 2 bolt pattern on the homemade trans mount plate???

- the rear I don't think is Olds. I am wondering if it might be 49-56 Ford car??? Just a guess based on nothing, except I think shoebox Fords were said to have that U-joint style?

-I have no clue on those front motor mounts.....and they sure are way forward? Could they be for a long motor like a 6 cyl? I doubt it, but they are just too far forward to be "side mounts" for a typical V8 locatation. I have no idea how the front of a Ford Y block mounts up, or where. I mention Y block in case that rear is from a Y block Ford car.

-never saw a master cylinder mounted that far away either.

Thanks for the pics

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Ford barn says 59 1/2" wheel mounting surface for 1935 ford rear. If anyone has definite measurement please verify.
Ford explorer 8.8 is 59 1/2" wheel mounting surface. Many 3.73 with "posi". If you go this route grab the driveshaft too.

You'll need to do suspension modifications described above.

 

I think the rear is a '49-56 Ford, too. Hung on beefed '36 wishbones. But the bigger issue is the center part of the frame. Since it is already badly hacked, you could take out the remainder of the center crossmember and put in a Chassis Engineering or similar piece to let you use a modern transmission. Then you can use whatever engine, automatic or stick you prefer. Once you get the chassis ironed out, you still have a ton of work to do, but you're on your way.

 

How can we ID it for sure? Can any numbers be found on it? Or is it best to get pictures of it off the car? Yes as I said that frame is completely shot. Need to brace up the body and remove it so I can put it on the new one. Oh and, on the new frame it looks like they widened the transmission area to support a bigger tranny.