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Technical Too Much Clutch!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Wayfreight, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    Good evening all.
    Ran into a snag on my 30 model A build and wondered if I could share it in the hopes that someone has experienced the same situation and a possible fix? I don't post often on here as I prefer to read and learn but the search function let me down this time!
    Doing the done-to-death 283 to T5 install-got engine, got trans, got 11'' 14-spline Astro clutch, what I ain't gots is apparently the skills to make it all work- the clutch seems to be too thick?
    Bellhousing bolted to the engine (minus the clutch) for mockup- shove the trans in- no problems at all everything bolts up fine, input shaft is fully seated etc. Stick the clutch in, input shaft in, everything is all lined up nice, and now the trans is 1/2'' from the bellhousing.
    After I got underneath it I could see the input shaft bottoming out on the clutch disc so the trans wouldn't slide all the way in. I'm at a bit of a loss here as everything lines up nice, the clutch is just 1/2'' too thick- not sure the odds of getting a thinner pressure plate etc are very good. Cutting half an inch off the input shaft won't help as it's hung up on the pressure plate it's not bottoming out on the crankshaft which I found rather unusual?
    Has anyone who's done this run into the same snag? If you could share your solution I would really appreciate it.
    Regards, John.
     
  2. I don't get it. If the trans goes in without the disc and is 1/2" shy of going in with the disc in place then there is a problem with the disc. Does the disc slide onto the spline freely on the floor. You say the spline is "bottoming out"? On what?. Did you use an alignment tool when you assembled the clutch?
     
  3. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Is the clutch disk installed with the correct side toward the flywheel? It has been done! It would push the disk toward the transmission.
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  4. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Another thought, what throw out bearing are you using? There are different lengths. Make sure the disk is hitting. You can measure the distance from the bell housing to the clutch plate and from the front of the transmission to the end of the splines.
     

  5. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,968

    brokenspoke
    Member

    If I remember correctly, I had to extend the splines on the transmission input shaft so the clutch disk would slide on further
     
    wbrw32 likes this.
  6. Bill (Brokenspoke) above ^^^^^^^^^^^ has your answer
     
  7. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,957

    gas pumper
    Member

    extend the spline might help. Sometimes it's shorten the sleeve that the throwout collar rides on because it hits the clutch disc hub. Sometimes its shorten the clutch disc hub enough to get it deeper into the input shaft splines. Also sometimes it's a matter of taking a little off the nose of the input shaft at the pilot bearing area to get the trans to seat against the bell (not in your case).
    I'm guessing you have an S10 trans? Seems to me the S10 has more fitment issues than a Camaro version.

    P.S. try the disc on the trans and assemble it all with out the pressure plate. This lets you see where the clutch hub is running out of room with out the PP in the way
     
  8. dudley32
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,160

    dudley32
    Member

    I had to cut the nose of the splined hub on one application...assemble as @gas pumper suggests above and see how it sits...trimming this area is simpler than splining the shaft....although 1/2 inch is a lot...

    disc13770422705213ff5e23d2c Astro.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  9. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    Thanks for all the assistance, much appreciated!
    Looks like the input shaft collar is hitting the clutch disc hub so I can't fully 'seat' the input shaft in the crankshaft, did not anticipate that one so I will cut it down and cross my fingers the input splines are long enough. Thanks to all for your replies!
     
  10. Nostrebor
    Joined: Jun 25, 2014
    Posts: 1,278

    Nostrebor
    Member

    I had to cut the input shaft collar -and- grind a bit off the face of the disk "collar" to get mine enough clearance. It all depends on the combo of parts.
     
  11. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    It's my own fault- I should know by now that something that 'should' fit together easily, or routine tasks such as an oil change or air freshener replacements, the way I roll by the time I get done, these simple tasks will require a welder, grinder, torches, every tool in the box, the lathe, the Bridgeport, some paint booth time, a 3-ring circus, 4 strippers, 9 coffees and a case of beer.
     
  12. Inline
    Joined: May 13, 2005
    Posts: 261

    Inline
    Member
    from Ohio

    The 11" astro van clutch disc has an approximately 1/4" longer splined snout than a 10" or 9" S-10 disc. Even if you use an adapter/spacer between the bell and trans, you have to trim the bearing retainer. If you are not using an adapter/spacer, you can cut the bearing retainer and hope that the splines are cut back far enough on the input to allow the disc to slide back. If you need some measurements, shoot me a PM or call.
     
  13. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    Perfect, thank you sir, much appreciated!
     
  14. Just looked up a T5 bearing retainer... much like a Muncie (except 1/2" longer...). Got a lathe with a 3 or 6 jaw chuck? That would make "short" work for an easy fix.
     
  15. LOL nothing is bolt together in my world, not even when I use stock replacement parts. :)

    Looks like you got good info so nothing to ad. So if you got a bridge port or access to one it is one of two things a broaching tool or an end mill. ;)
     
    Frankie47 likes this.
  16. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 5,053

    rusty rocket
    Member

    I had to use a spacer from the bell to the trans. Vintage metalworks sells them.
     
  17. When the raven put the T5 in his AD truck that is what he used was a spacer.
     
  18. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.

    I've never put this combination together before, would anybody care to offer an opinion on whether it's better to use a spacer between the bellhousing and the trans, or cut down the bearing retainer?

    Looks like either will work, either move the trans back 1/2'' with the Vintage Metalworks spacer, or cut down the bearing retainer and move the trans ahead the required amount? I can't see a difference in either method, which means I'm probably missing something!
     
  19. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,957

    gas pumper
    Member

    I say it costs nothing to remove metal where needed to fit it all together and you did it yourself!!
     
  20. Ralph
    Joined: Jan 8, 2004
    Posts: 296

    Ralph
    Member

    I like the spacer idea so if you have to replace the trans you don't have to modify the new one.
     
    H380 likes this.
  21. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 5,053

    rusty rocket
    Member

    You can cut the retainer but you will run out of spline on the input shaft. At least thats what happend to me.
     
  22. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,877

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    That's some funny but true shit right there........
     
  23. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    10-4 thanks guys.
    I have an old bellhousing with a chunk broken off in the 'parts department'. I bet that with a little (a lot) of cutting, the transmission mating flange of said broken bellhousing would make a hell of a spacer.
     
  24. If you go with a spacer, there is a member, who's user name is" INLINE", on the board who makes T-5 spacers for all kinds of applications. His prices beat everything out there, quality is great, and shipping is timely. I purchased one and am very happy with it. He has an Ad in the Parts Forum.
     
  25. JC Sparks
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 733

    JC Sparks
    Member
    from Ohio

    If you use a spacer to take up the 1/2", how deep are you in the pilot bearing? JC
     
  26. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    In that picture it looks like there's some unnecessary metal on the hub because it's countersunk into the splines. Adding a spacer means there isn't as much shaft in the pilot bearing.
     
  27. dudley32
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,160

    dudley32
    Member

    Right...that's what I had to trim off and that moves it further away from the tranny without having to lengthen the splines on the tranny
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  28. Wayfreight
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 39

    Wayfreight
    Member

    Problem solved and all back together, shoved it back in and crossed my fingers- thanks everyone.
    The solution, and I hope this helps someone sometime;
    - Rather than put a spacer in, move the trans back, and reduce the amount of input shaft in the pilot bearing by about half, I pulled the input shaft collar off the transmission, cut about 5/8ths of an inch off it, and luckily the input shaft is 'almost' splined far enough back the clutch disk will now sit far enough back on it that you can now fully engage the pilot bearing.
    I spent a few mins with the Dremel and tweaked the threads enough to get a bit more wiggle room backwards, and put it all back together.
    No guarantee this is going to work without both feet on the clutch pedal but I think it will be ok.
    Regards to all, John.
     
    Hdonlybob likes this.
  29. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 543

    slack
    Member

    "nothing is bolt together in my world, not even when I use stock replacement parts. :)"

    I feel your pain Beano_O
     
  30. Doing the same set-up, S-10 T-5 to 283 but with a 10 1/2" clutch and a spacer. My question is, how much of the input shaft spline should be exposed in front of the bearing collar? Mine has an 1 1/4", but does not appear to be enough. Will I have to mount everything to the motor to determine this?
     

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