Hot Rods Flathead intake.............. Any info?

Picked up a fatty this weekend. Don't see any #'s on the block But has this strange aluminum intake.
It's # C11A-6520-C2. One of the heads are marked ford C81A-6049. The block has the recesses by the valves, and no sleeves. Bore measures 3.26. And has the frost drains on both sides. The seller said it was a 39. This is a picture I found that is the same manifold, but it also has a govener on it as well.

 

It appears to be a plain factory manifold. The heads at minimum are probably Canadian with the "C" prefixes.

 

Look at the oil fill. I've never seen it.

 

Possibly for access in a stationary environment, like a generator or irrigation pump. From a performance standpoint, it's just stocker intake, nothing you can really do aside from smoothing it out, polishing it and putting a 2-to-1 carb adapter on it.

 

Normal Canadian '41-48 manifold, also used on many wartime vehicles. That front oil tube is a nice improvement over trying to get oil into the breather tube past the choke and throttle rods...
Note that it has undrilled bosses between runners for earlier vacuum lines...probably sold drilled as a replacement for earlier motors, especially the '39 military ones. Manifold was also used with 2 different PCV setups on military engines. This one has normal '42-8 banjo vacuum setup and behind it another fitting in the truck vac port, possibly for vac assisted brakes.
Carb pad is drilled for normal Ford carb but has pads for four bolt Solex carb...like many wartime deigns provisions were made to keep full interchangeability with British Fords and later USA Fords.
Head would indicate Canadian 221, but of course heads are often interchanged. Bore and pictures of deck, sides of block, and water passages will identify engine if prewar 24 stud.

 

Thanks,Bruce. I will take some pics and post. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

You see these intake manifolds here in Canada in Ford F1 pickup trucks and other Ford pickups that predate the Ford F1.( I'm sure there were other applications as well) The oil fill normally located in the rear is difficult to get at in a pickup truck and that is likely why the side oil fill was created. I have seen several of these intakes over the years and I believe that intake you have was available only in Canada.

 

Bruce & QuickChange here's the pics as promised.
Third last picture shows the water drain. One on each side.
Last is the timing gear 21A.
The #s are on the bell?

 

Vent outlet on pan looks strange...does it have an opening in it or is it sealed? If sealed, it's from a heavy duty military application with PCV for durability. Engine has the block side bulges going down to plugs on pan face, so probably '39-40 99 type. It's 3 3/16 bore, right?

 

Yes Bruce the bore is 3.26 measuring at the small ridge. I never noticed that vent. I'll check it out when I get back. The head gaskets I need would have the triangle on to top, the circle in the middle, and the key way on the bottom right? Having a hard time finding those. Any idea where I can get those? our can I use a different style?

 

You should be fine using the 46-48 "59" style head gasket.

 

Crayon mark indicated .080" over. (Is that a Canadian timing gear?) Also noticed 'Silvolite' type pistons, but no adjustable tappets.
When I was an apprentice, I'd grind flathead valves and seats, setting valve lash with the Sioux grinder.
I got pretty good at it, could accurately grind and set valves faster (and easier) than using that blasted Johnson tool for holding the tappet while adjusting the bolt!
Drilled blocks at tappet bosses made adjustments easier, but when in the car? Oh, my back! Even back then...groan...

 

Mike. I think 080 somebody measured thinking it was a 221, as there is no markings on the pistions. Timing gear must be canadain. Got it turning over, it was stuck. Been sitting in a shed for 18 yrs. Now just has to get the valves freed up.

 

Yes, use the 59 gasket, not the prewar one. Instructions are in overhaul manual for redrilling some of the head holes when switching over...this is a Ford mod for better water distribution.

 

Thanks for your help Bruce. If I get the valve train working properly, and everything cleaned up, I think I'm going to just re gasket it and fire. See how it goes.

 

oh yah. One more question. What overhaul manual. Do you just cut the to fit the keyway?

 

http://cgfordparts.com/ufolder/showproducts.php?c=1&s=2&g=24&t=65

Link is to Bratton's for the repro book. There's also a Canadian version, but it's rare.
Interestingly, some of the pics in the USA book are of a Canadian 29 type wartime motor with the 3-port full flow oil system and spoked timing gear! I can dig up and post the head mod...you just drill a couple of the holes in the vertical center row and use the round hole'46-48 gasket, will dig up numbers for you.
What keyway?

 

Keyway cutout in head gasket? Not exactally sure what I need to do to make the 59 gasket fit.

 

Recipe from Ford for prewar 24 stud cooling:
Gasket...the postwar gasket you want has a triangular hole at top of middle vertical row of holes, other holes below that are all round.
Obsolete gasket...center vertical row of holes has one triangular hole, two trapezoids. Discard.
If using prewar head, anything predating 59 1945 design, look at the central vertical row of holes: Hole at top gets drilled to 3/4", next hole down unaltered, 3rd hole drilled to 5/8. Done.
Total effect opens up some holes, throttles down others for promised better cooling. If using aftermarket heads, they likely match 59's on anything likely to be found, but check.

 

Heads are C81A-6049 & C81A-6050 . The C81A-6049 has bosses on each end, but are not drlled out, maybe for extrat water lines? And both have a big "A" on them. I'm asuming prewar?
The vent outlet on the pan is split all the way up., and looks like it has a cap on it?
Want to drop the pan soon and will get back to you. One more thing it does have the 3 outlets for the oil.

 

There are several C-81A heads...the iron ones are BIG chamber, 77-81 CC. There should be a version letter at end of number, probably A or C. The A after the 81 just means deign first use was passenger car, not necessarily the only model it was used on. The free-standing A is just a quick ID probably meant to distinguish them from the T 81T heads for heavy trucks.

 

I might not drop the pan after all. Everthing seems pretty tight. the oil pan plug is off . Pretty clean in there, from what I can see. Think I'll free all the valves and find a carb and see how it runs. Have a munch this motor might be okay as is. Seen an add on the Hamb. This oil pan looks like it could be the same?

 

Decided to drop the pan. Was right not to dirty. Put the timing gear back on and got the valves working except for three.
Will have to make up a bar to take those three out and have a look. Cleaned up the heads. Took the water pumps off. Had to drill out the top of the head bolt on the bottom bolt, on both pumps. Couldn't get a socket on it. And lots of rusty corn fakes on the bottom, after removing the pumps. Magnet works great for cleaning all the shit out. On the lookout now for some new pumps, and a gasket set. Oh the pan is vented.

 

Help! I pulled 1 of the stuck valves and noticed that it has the 48 - 54 valve set up,not the mushroom style 32 - 48 style. Can these newer valves and guides be used in the 38 -48 style? And if they can, do I use the 2 piece guide or the 1 piece. There is a couple other 48 -54 syle in there also. Should they be all the mushroom syle?

 

Complete valve assemblies are fully interchangeable. Late types (there are two) are easier to use, cheaper, and offer a microscopic flow advantage with thinner stem.
If choosing use the '49-50 type, not the later ones with rotater, simply because more available. You have to use late guides with late valves...smaller diameter.
Dr. Van Pelt has provided the parts book pic to identify late types here: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_engine-pics/Flathead_Engine_valve1949to53.jpg

 

Still working on this one. Found some mushroom valves, springs, and spit guides. So replaced the later style ones.Valve train is now working. Heads and manifold are on, rebuilt a carb for it. Ended up dropping the pan, glad I did as there where 4 little frost plug along the rails 2 on each side that I have to replace. They where all rusted, and the passage ways needed to be cleaned out. Once I replace those I can put the pan back on. Also looking for a kit for the fuel pump or maybe a replacement if I can find one. Its the type with no glass bowl. Also dropped the crank main caps, 1 at a time, to clean them up a bit. Reinstalled them, but haven't torque them yet. Has good compression coming out of the sparkplug holes. Just woundering if the starter I have is going to be good enough to turn it around.
Plan is to leave the plugs out for the first go around or two,but I cannot believe the air that is being force out of those spark plug holes. Need some feed back on this.

 

This looks like a happy old flathead that survived WWII. You worry too much...this is a stout survivor. Feed it some electricity and light it up!

 

Thats the plan. But just really surpised about that much compression +==?

 

If it seals well, most of a cylinder full of air is going to exit suddenly! I once turned over a fresh flathead with masking tape over the plug holes...the sudden death of each little piece of tape sounded like a distant shot!