has anyone have info. on a sway bar for front axle ? past weekend i seen a model a , with what i would think is a sway bar .......
I've seen them, but not sure why anyone uses one. They really clutter up the clean lines of a straight axle. I'd dial in the suspension so you wont need a front swaybar.
Rod from one side of frame to other side of axle is a sway bar, U-shaped pivoting one linked to both sides is anti-roll...general popular usage is RONG, hence need to define what we are discussing...my stock '48 has both, and some earlier Fords have a design that works at both functions via pivots restricted to one axis!
It would seem to me that a buggy spring and straight axle like the old Fords would have the anti roll built in by the stiffness of the spring half on either side of the center attachment of the spring. The stiffer the spring the less the body would roll around the pivot. Of course the overall ride would be stiffer too.
Bruce, not to muddy the water, I assume what you are calling the sway bar, more standardly known as a panhard bar, right?
A panhard bar centers the axle. A sway bar or ant roll bar are one in the same. they control body roll
From my experience driving stock model A fords, it's completely opposite. Next time you see a stocker without shocks added and the owner is there, ask him to rock the car back and forth. They roll more than the Pillsbury Dough Boy! I edited my post to include the information is based on using an unsplit wishbone, I think having them split or using radius or four bar rods, will naturally increase stiffness / anti roll
I agree, I just wanted clarification from Bruce. The correct original term for a panhard bar could have been sway bar. If anyone would know, it would be him. And that is a compliment Bruce, not sarcasm.
Panhard is the commonest form of anti-sway. Early Fords seem quite good on roll, with the longer springs after '34 improving this. They run much flatter than most '50's and '60's barges... Coupla datum points: A magazine road test found substantially less roll in their test Model A roadster athan a new ('55 or 6) Ford tested around the same time...and then there was the Tom McCahill comparo test of the 25th anniversary Merc (1964) against a well preserved '39...the '64 won all the performance tests except handling. Pics of the cars running through the cones show the '64 nearly scrubbing off the door handles, '39 nice and vertical...at higher speed. Note that roll center on an early Ford is MUCH higher than most IFS cars, giving it a flying start on the problem.
You would have to mount the the arms to the frame & the majority of the "swaybar" to the axle, cause the engine sits too low or your swaybar will sit below the wishbones. You will need some type of performance tire to match, these cars are lite wieght & skinny tire will slide/skid & bias-plys . . . . ?????? Typ. tube shocks will give you the performance your looking for. FYI: You could get one off the rear of a CIVIC Wagon that might work
The primary function of a panhard bar (or watts etc.) is to control lateral movement of the axle. How and where it's mounted does affect the roll centers/roll axis and the amount of body roll geometrically. Sway bars/anti roll bars don't control lateral movement and affect body roll mechanically by adding roll stiffness. By and large the two are considered seperate entitys.
So-Cal has them. Scandinavian Street Rods makes them Chassis engineering has them as well. Where did you see this car?
like others , i'm not sure if he is referring to a panhard rod or a sway bar. since the OP has not come back to clarify we may never know
This is the most accurate response IMO. Apples and oranges. We all know what a panhard or watts linkage looks like, and a sway bar is totally different. You have seen them on newer cars, they run across the car and have arms that extend back and have links that connect each side of the suspension to the sway bar. As a frame tries to lean over the sway bar acts as a torsion bar and resists that leaning, keeping the car more level. What we are not sure of is what the OP is calling a "sway bar". He may have seen a panhard or he may have seen a true sway bar. Until he comes back we are just guessing. Don
Many builders of rods like to "SPLIT" the front wishbones on early Fords; (mainly to get them out of the way of a changed engine and transmission) from their original pivot point under the transmission. They move the ends out to the frame which now actually creates a "sway bar." The torsion bar part is the front axle. (or becomes) If an original "I" beam front axle is used, it will flex enough not to create any damage. BUT, if a tube axle is used, (tube axles do not "flex" in torsional direction) a tremendous amount of strain is placed on the axle and the connectors on the ends of the wishbones. (and the attachment points on the frame) In a light rod, a tube axle and split wishbones almost totally stops any "roll" or "sway" (side to side) motion. BUT keep an eye on all welds at the frame.
I put a sway and panhard on my frontend, unsplit wishbone. Handles and rides better than any other straight axle car Iv'e been in. Sorry shes perty dirty right now.
Henry wouldn't have liked the idea of anti-roll bars on his earlier cars because his suspension was designed to minimise torsional forces on the ladder frame suspensions. Early cars were suited to flexible frames but still got torn up, later cars with full roofs were better braced. As for panhard bar - a good idea if you use standard shackles both sides of a transverse spring. A dead perch is a good alternative.
A Panhard bar is not necessary on 1909-41 Fords with springs mounted in tension as Henry designed them. Ford added Panhard bars front and rear in 42-48 when they stopped stopped mounting springs in tension in an effort to deliver a smoother softer ride to compete with the competition's IFS. Swaybars were introduced to Fords in 1940 and continued through 1948.
Here is what I did on my '37 Chevy truck with straight axle. This is a sway bar made for the newer '47-'55 truck. Just incase you mean sway-bar. http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/driveline/swaybar/index.html Joe
I saw a dead-perch on a Model A street rod. I'd never seen one before, but the owner of the A-bone said it stabilized his front end exponentially. Now, I'm in the process of building a street rod with an axle from a Model A and wondered, where I could get a dead perch, of get ideas for building my own?
I'm using a dead perch I made to eliminate bump steer that I had a problem with last summer. I've had the car (my avatar) out 3-4 times already this year, works great and I notice no difference in ride quality, very happy with it.
Well I have heard people sat that if you split your wishbones that you turn you axle into a sway bar. On a light low car the outside most that is needed is a panhard bar and with a cross leaf that is set up properly is it pretty redundant. Where a sway bar comes in handy is on a big fat heavy boat fender car. They tend to lean and sway a lot.
those are from Johnsons Rod Shop it uses a straight bar with splined ends the drag links are machined to look like the dog bones on a lever shock its a cool set up and hides very well I think he may have used a similar set up like this on the front
In high school a friend had a 50 Ford High-Boy. Nothing but springs and slapper bars. He had to begin his turn 40 feet before the real turn. That POS had some body roll. Wonder why you never see those anymore,,,,,sarc
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