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Technical 1964 390 timing help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by noxided, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    1964 galaxie 500 xl
    Just bought the car with a rebuilt not running motor

    I can't get it to fire.

    I've got the #1 cyl at TDC compression stroke, both valves are closed.

    I pulled the dist and put it back in and it's set to #1

    Problem is that the harmonic balancer marks are on the other side.

    Could the cam be installed wrong with the gears?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  2. Do you know for sure that the piston is at TDC? If the cam is installed wrong, the valves can be closed but the piston may be somewhere else. You could also have the wrong damper and/or timing cover/pointer as Ford did move the timing marks around on the FE over the years. But if the cam is installed right and you have the distributor reasonably close, it should start or try to. If the marks are off, you'll have to fix that to time it. If it were me, I'd pull the timing cover and start there, verifying that the timing chain/gears are right (pull the rockers off before changing it if it's wrong).
     
  3. gas pumper
    Joined: Aug 13, 2007
    Posts: 2,957

    gas pumper
    Member

    First cylinder on the passenger side is #1. You can see the piston thru the spark plug hole. I just did an old 390. Make sure the dist goes all the way down to engage the oil pump. ALL the way down.!!! I paid no attention to the timing mark and pointer. Make sure you are advancing in the right direction and getting the points to just open when it's slightly advanced.
     
  4. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    I put a screwdriver in the hole to verify it was at tdc. And the distributor is all the way in. It took several attempts
     

  5. Dumb question but did you verify that you have spark? I have put a fresh motor in with all new everything only to find the new MSD coil would not fire and was shorted out of the box. I chased that for a bit before I finally checked for spark and discovered the dead new coil.
     
  6. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    Just double checked and I'm getting a big orange spark.

    So I replaced the coil, cap, rotor and wires.

    Still orange spark, battery is good and on a charger so I don't drain it.
     
  7. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    Also it has a petronix ignitor. Looks brand new.
     
  8. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    Added a ground from the motor to frame.

    Blue spark, still no fire
     
  9. Galaxie390
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 13

    Galaxie390
    Member

    So many things to check so I'll throw out a few. Are the plugs wet with gas? That would verify your getting fuel. Does it have compression? Could the rings be washed out due to flooding trying to start it? Does the rotor actually rotate when cranking? I've seen the drive gear shear the pin on the dist. Verify the firing order. Is there any firing either in the exhaust or through the carb? That would indicate retarded or advanced timing. Check the spark at the coil wire end that goes in the cap, then check it at the plug with a real spark tester. good luck!


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  10. Maybe hold your finger over the plug hole and make sure you have compression (and getting spark at the same time) while cranking. The timing mark being on the wrong side sounds suspicious.
     
  11. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,919

    Slopok
    Member

    As stated earlier #1 is on passenger side and Cylinders are not numbered like a Chevy. Recheck the firing order.
     
  12. Yeah, and dist rotation is opposite.
     
  13. Seems to me that if you have spark, fuel and compression, then regardless of cam position, distributor, plug wires, etc you should get an occasional poof-fart-pop-flame-backfire. You sure you have all three?
     
  14. Yeah I would check firing order and compression. Just cause it was "rebuilt" doesnt mean it was done right. Unless you know and trust the person that rebuilt it.
     
  15. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    I've done all that and it checks out. Still no fire
     
  16. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,177

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    180 degrees off? need a better way to verify TDC #1
     
    kbgreen likes this.
  17. kbgreen
    Joined: Jan 12, 2014
    Posts: 341

    kbgreen
    Member
    1. Georgia Hambers

    The piston is TDC twice during the same cycle; once to fire fresh gas the second time to exhaust the burned gas. During both events the timing mark shows on the same spot on the damper. When buying a freshly rebuilt engine, I always do a tear down to check everything. $100 to $150 for a mid 60's Ford gasket set is cheap for the view. Selling a freshly "rebuilt" engine that hasn't or doesn't run can be a sign of total frustration by the previous owner as he never figured out the problem either.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  18. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    [​IMG]
    OK lets go shade tree...........
    Pull the main distributor lead, the center cap wire, we do not want it to fire right now.
    One at a time pull each spark plug and squirt some oil on top of each piston.
    Replace the wires, don't mix them up...yet. Requires an oil can.
    With # 1 plug removed and your finger in the hole, have an assistant "Bump" the starter on your orders......Bump it bump it bump it. You may want to go around several times to feel the compression stroke.
    You'll know it. It will psssst and try to blow your finger out the hole.
    If you feel no pssst, or #1 is hard to feel, either there is no compression or the valves are off...out of sync.
    Look at the crank pulley after every Pssst. The timing marks should be close.
    If the timing marks are a consistent 180 off,
    Confirm that the marks and pointer are correctly installed.
    390s were internally balanced. So the likely hood of damper timing mark slippage is really non existent like on a 289/302.
    If she is a consistent 180 off or the compression tends to bounce around, I would pull the cover and re check cam timing.
    If it is on compression stroke and the marks line up close you can try to run it.
    You may have to re set the distributor or if it's off you can re arrange the wires just to run it. The distributor does not care where #1 is on the circle.
    Personally I would pull it and put #1 on the distributor to factory location.
    To reset the distributor you may have to set it one cylinder before #1 and bump the starter for the oil pump shaft to line up, then she should fall/drop square on #1. You may have to do this several times.
    If it is 180 off and you need to time the cam, make sure you have the right reference material.
     
  19. barstowpo
    Joined: Jun 27, 2012
    Posts: 232

    barstowpo
    Member

    It does have a rotor in it doesn't it. Good cap too?
     
  20. noxided
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 780

    noxided
    Member

    I never figured out the timing issue but I guess she was thirsty. I poured in a lot of gas and after a while she fired up.
     

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